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America Has Spoken - Printable Version

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America Has Spoken - Delphinoid_ - 6th November 2024

And they chose a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist billionaire who
  • denies climate change (despite every climate scientist, whose job it is to show it doesn't exist, finding that it beyond a doubt does - it's important to stress that this shouldn't even be a political issue, it's like a barometer for idiocy);
  • wants to abolish the Department of Education (which was started in order to combat the US's failure to keep up with the rest of the world in terms of education, and provides funding to public schools, aid to students and collects data on US education for the sake of improving the education system);
  • wants to put an antivax conspiracy theorist in charge of public health, who is against things like fluoride in the water (ask your dentist how stupid this sounds);
  • wants to enact tariffs that 23 Nobel Prize winning economists agree will be a disaster for the US economy (I guess no one learned from his previous term, where he gave huge corporations a permanent, trillion dollar tax cut and disproportionately cut taxes for the upper class, hurting the lower and middle classes in the long run and inflating the deficit);
  • has been constantly ripped apart by the people close to him, including many of his top advisors from his first term and even his own running mate;
  • attempted to incite a coup d'état when he lost the 2020 election, which ended in multiple deaths and over a hundred injured (which he has never taken any responsibility for - these are YOUR supporters);
  • falsely claimed that Haitian immigrants were "eating people's pets", which he softly rescinded in an interview as soon as he wanted support from Latin American voters;
  • etc.
On top of all of this, he's utterly vile: doing crude gestures with the mic at rallies, saying terrible, disgusting things about women, minorities and veterans, constantly spewing nothing but hatred and vitriol to rile up his base... I just don't understand it. How could America let this happen? What possessed the majority of Americans to vote for this? I feel terrible for the Americans who have to watch their country get wrung dry by ignorance and radicalism. I guess there's no choice but to just see what happens though.


RE: America Has Spoken - David - 7th November 2024

(6th November 2024, 10:37 PM)Delphinoid_ Wrote: I just don't understand it. How could America let this happen? What possessed the majority of Americans to vote for this? I feel terrible for the Americans who have to watch their country get wrung dry by ignorance and radicalism. I guess there's no choice but to just see what happens though.

I'm convinced it simply came down to the economy, the economy was better during Trump's presidency and things got a lot more expensive during Biden's presidency and his VP is Kamala Harris. From what I understand Obama's presidency is the reason why the economy was good during Trump's, at least mostly why, and then COVID is the main reason why the economy got worse under Biden and would have happened under Trump too, but most people don't seem to think that deeply about it and just blame everything on the current administration (I mean most people understand COVID had an effect, I just think they underestimate how much effect)


RE: America Has Spoken - Minimania - 7th November 2024

(6th November 2024, 10:37 PM)Delphinoid_ Wrote: What possessed the majority of Americans to vote for this?
Most of them didn't need to be "possessed" to do it. Sure, not every person who voted for him is a rapist, a racist, a misogynist, a homophobe, a transphobe, a criminal, an ableist, or an enemy of democracy. But every single one of them have decided that him being all of those things is not a dealbreaker. So make with that what you will.


RE: America Has Spoken - Legend - 7th November 2024

https://whyharrislost.com/


RE: America Has Spoken - LCPD - 7th November 2024

In the famous words of someone, "Its the economy stupid." Inflation hurt people, they see it in their paychecks and interest rates. Thats what hurt Harris and she didnt really have any notable achievements during her time as VP. She was put in charge of the border and see how that turned out. It really just came down as a referendum on the Biden administration which people have described as Jimmy Carters second term.


RE: America Has Spoken - Delphinoid_ - 7th November 2024

(7th November 2024, 2:04 PM)LCPD Wrote: In the famous words of someone, "Its the economy stupid." Inflation hurt people, they see it in their paychecks and interest rates. Thats what hurt Harris and she didnt really have any notable achievements during her time as VP. She was put in charge of the border and see how that turned out. It really just came down as a referendum on the Biden administration which people have described as Jimmy Carters second term.

It's humbling to learn that the majority of people ultimately don't seem to care about anything if they believe they can save a few dollars on eggs. Who cares about things like the environment or the safety and education of children, right? I know not everyone is privileged enough to be in a position where they can worry about anything other than surviving from paycheck to paycheck, which can obviously lead to desperation, but I dunno. It's just frustrating to see. The economy seems to have been improving pretty fast recently too; wages finally seem to have been pretty rapidly recovering from the pandemic. It's really unfortunate that Trump will probably get the credit for fixing the economy when he inherits this next year.


RE: America Has Spoken - Different - 7th November 2024

@Delphinoid_ what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to ban abortion? He’s mentioned wanting to do this a few times before becoming president again.


RE: America Has Spoken - Overbeing - 7th November 2024

I think that a lot of people find him to be a good conduit for their anger and fear. People feel that the system is working against them and that either Trump will make things better for them or that he will at least disrupt the status quo. So that even if things don't get better, they at least get to send a big middle finger to the White House.

A lot of people have the impression that Trump will do a better job with the economy, and even though I have no idea what would give them that impression, it is more rooted in emotion than logic. They don't understand that inflation isn't a US problem that Biden created, it is a world problem caused by the pandemic and that the US is doing comparably well post pandemic, and that Democrat administrations do a better job with the economy when planning for the long term.

But that is just it. It isn't about the logic or the data, it is about how people feel. The balance of power changes hands when people feel like something is wrong, and there are plenty of media and influencers who have been hard at work making sure that people stay afraid. Resulting in a geriatric narcissistic bigoted rapist toddler is now back in power.


RE: America Has Spoken - Mia - 8th November 2024

I tried to not get involved with politics this time around, because both sides were filled with negativity. Only until recently when I heard about some of Trump's plans did I start to realize, I should probably stay at least somewhat involved in the political process. With that being said, he's trying to take steps towards blocking same sex marriage, and that goes against what I believe. I just hope nothing comes of that. Honestly, I'm just hoping for the best for everyone.


RE: America Has Spoken - Delphinoid_ - 8th November 2024

(7th November 2024, 10:13 PM)Different Wrote: @Delphinoid_ what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to ban abortion? He’s mentioned wanting to do this a few times before becoming president again.

It's not entirely relevant to this thread, but I think the issue of abortion has two sides to it: a philosophical / ideological side and a practical side. On one hand one can argue that it makes sense (for, say, religious reasons) to decide that "personhood" begins at conception. On the other hand, look at the actual real-world effects of banning abortions. Look at the aftermath of Roe v. Wade being overturned, for instance: women are dying! Even in cases where the woman's life isn't at mortal risk, giving birth is traumatic and life-altering, both mentally and biologically. To put it bluntly, if I had to choose in a vacuum, I would value the suffering of the mother over the suffering of a fetus (which may or may not even be able to process "suffering", and certainly wouldn't in the same way the mother would). I think banning abortions is a disastrous decision. I don't even think this should be up to the states to decide independently.

By the way, have you heard what people are saying? "Your body, MY choice". Young boys are saying this at school over there. It's foul, really foul.


(8th November 2024, 1:01 AM)Mia Wrote: I tried to not get involved with politics this time around, because both sides were filled with negativity. Only until recently when I heard about some of Trump's plans did I start to realize, I should probably stay at least somewhat involved in the political process. With that being said, he's trying to take steps towards blocking same sex marriage, and that goes against what I believe. I just hope nothing comes of that. Honestly, I'm just hoping for the best for everyone.

I sympathize. I think it's not good to surround ourselves with too much negativity, and for a long time I didn't get involved in politics either. I thought both sides sucked / weren't that different and figured there was no point, since nothing seemed to affect me very much. But, and I kind of hate to put it like this since it is a bit of a meme, the ability to think like that is a massive privilege (and one that many people don't have). You don't have to go and yell about stuff online like an idiot like I do. You don't have to campaign or protest or get angry. Just do your best to stay informed, stay respectful and vote. I think just doing those small things makes a huge difference in pushing society towards a better future.


RE: America Has Spoken - Simon - 8th November 2024

‘YO. IDGAF WHO EUROPE WANTS. THEY DONT HAVE AIR CONDITIONING. THEY NEED OUR WEAPONS AND MILITARY TO HANDLE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS. ALSO FUNNY HOW ANTI IMMIGRATION AND MONO CULTURAL MANY OF THESE COUNTRIES ARE WHILE OPINING ON OUR POLICIES. AMERICA WILL BE FINE TOMORROW MORNING, AND EUROPE WILL STILL BE, IN AGGREGATE, WORSE OFF THAN OUR POOREST STATES AND THEY WILL STILL BE DEPENDENT ON OUR MEDIA/CULTURE/ECONOMY/HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS. ALL WHILE COMPLAINING ABOUT US ON OUR SOCIAL MEDIA SITES. HAVE A DAY AMERICA, WE GON BE ALRIGHT.’

https://x.com/wu_tang_finance/status/1853829419053580303?s=46&t=hZEhFzQDfAmKgLGzsLK71A


RE: America Has Spoken - Different - 9th November 2024

(8th November 2024, 2:30 AM)Delphinoid_ Wrote: By the way, have you heard what people are saying? "Your body, MY choice". Young boys are saying this at school over there. It's foul, really foul.

Yes, I have. I’m not sure exactly where they got it from, but that kind of attitude leads to rape allegations pinned against them. They start off saying things they shouldn’t, then they get the wrong impression from someone telling them it’s ok to behave that way, then they begin to mimic what they heard or saw.

No offense, but the Gen-z generation of kids may be a lost cause.


RE: America Has Spoken - Minimania - 13th November 2024

I never understood the point of taking the "moral high ground" by not voting. It's a trolley problem, and by taking that "moral high ground" by not pulling the lever, they have allowed more people to suffer as opposed to less. During the campaign, people have been emboldened to fly the flag of the third reich alongside their MAGA and confederate flags. That's quite literally a giant red flag, and it should have told people to stay away, but apparently it's not enough for people to not vote red. And now Trump's success has validated them, and there are now a number of texts about slaves and "picking cotton" going around and getting sent to black people.


RE: America Has Spoken - 1amayzingman - 18th November 2024

(7th November 2024, 1:52 PM)Legend Wrote: https://whyharrislost.com/

That is pretty much exactly opposite of what actually happened. Harris lost primarily for 3 interconnected reasons:
1. Joe Biden has been extremely unpopular and she did literally nothing to separate herself from him in any way.
2. She ran as far to the right as she could on essentially every issue except for abortion (celebrating an endorsement from Liz Cheny and basically ceding all ground to republicans on immigration reform being two particularly egregious examples).
3. She refused to change course at all with regards to our funding the genocide in Palestine.

In short, it was broadly because she moved too far to the right, not that the party moved too far to the left. For further evidence of this, Harris specifically underperformed compared to a lot of the senate/house races that were also happening.


RE: America Has Spoken - Simon - 18th November 2024

(18th November 2024, 5:37 AM)1amayzingman Wrote: That is pretty much exactly opposite of what actually happened. Harris lost primarily for 3 interconnected reasons:
1. Joe Biden has been extremely unpopular and she did literally nothing to separate herself from him in any way.
2. She ran as far to the right as she could on essentially every issue except for abortion (celebrating an endorsement from Liz Cheny and basically ceding all ground to republicans on immigration reform being two particularly egregious examples).
3. She refused to change course at all with regards to our funding the genocide in Palestine.

In short, it was broadly because she moved too far to the right, not that the party moved too far to the left. For further evidence of this, Harris specifically underperformed compared to a lot of the senate/house races that were also happening.

Calling it a genocide is just regurgitating what you hear online and not actually putting any thought to it. It is a war.

Israel has had one of the best civilian to terrorist death ratios and if Hamas didn’t hide behind civilians there would be less civilian casualties.

Look at the ‘state of Palestine’ population growth trends, it’s only going up. This is not the population growth chart of a group of people going through a genocide.
   

Also, do the math, in the last year since October 7th. Israel reports that there has been 34k killed in Gaza (majority of which are terrorists), how long would it take at that pace to actually commit genocide? Especially since their population is growing….
   

Use your brain and think, don’t just say buzz words because other people say them….


RE: America Has Spoken - Nagato - 18th November 2024

I'd like to think that most people are reasonable and that its only the die-hard Trump supporters who don't realize how deeply flawed and horrible of a person he is. I think a vote for Trump is more so a vote against the establishment and the current powers. People are deeply dissatisfied with politicians and how corrupt everything is and Trump winning the popular vote is a loud and clear message being sent to the democratic party about how people feel. Of course, this is not the only reason, but I do think it is a large one. The low voter turnout IMO shows this as well.

In addition, I think many people didn't care enough about the issues that the democratic party was positioning themselves on. Things like abortion only affect a small portion of people and very few people were personally affected by Jan 6. Most Americans disapprove of overturning Roe V Wade but at the same time Trump won the popular vote so there was almost certainly some overlap between pro-choice people and people who voted Trump. 

I disagree with the idea that the democratic party positioned themselves too far to the right or left. Most people likely don't even know what "right" or "left" means and only care about whether or not the party is going to improve their life. 


I do see Trump winning, in a sense, a demonstration of how miraculous democracy is. You have the freedom to vote for anyone you like, and if you want, you can vote for a convicted felon who's been impeached twice, still hasn't conceded the past election results, says batshit insane things regularly and may very well be one of the most narcissistic people alive.

As a Canadian watching from the (somewhat) outside, I did find the entire election to be quite a spectacle. This was easily more insane than the 2016 one, which I thought could never be topped. In addition, if Trump was an underdog in 2016, I felt he was even more so this time and him winning not only the election but the popular vote was simply ridiculous. Even near the end of 2023 I remember thinking that there was absolutely no shot of him winning again.


RE: America Has Spoken - 1amayzingman - 18th November 2024

(18th November 2024, 7:29 AM)Simon Wrote: Calling it a genocide is just regurgitating what you hear online and not actually putting any thought to it. It is a war.

Israel has had one of the best civilian to terrorist death ratios and if Hamas didn’t hide behind civilians there would be less civilian casualties.

Look at the ‘state of Palestine’ population growth trends, it’s only going up. This is not the population growth chart of a group of people going through a genocide.


Also, do the math, in the last year since October 7th. Israel reports that there has been 34k killed in Gaza (majority of which are terrorists), how long would it take at that pace to actually commit genocide? Especially since their population is growing….


Use your brain and think, don’t just say buzz words because other people say them….

The median age of a Palestinian is 19.9 years old.


RE: America Has Spoken - Simon - 18th November 2024

(18th November 2024, 9:25 PM)1amayzingman Wrote: The median age of a Palestinian is 19.9 years old.

Clearly you didn’t read, this is what a genocide looks like

   


RE: America Has Spoken - Minimania - 19th November 2024

No, Hamas is not innocent, but there are innocent people who have no choice but to live in Palestine for various reasons. Israel is not innocent either. There has been leaked footage of some Israeli drones targeting Palestinians without discrimination, and some of them look like non-combatants. This isn't some rag-tag militant force. Israel has the power of a great military and with it should come the responsibility for their actions. People have a right to draw ire with their indiscriminant targeting of Palestinians. Bombing civilians is something you do if you're committing a genocide.


RE: America Has Spoken - Simon - 19th November 2024

(19th November 2024, 10:09 AM)Minimania Wrote: No, Hamas is not innocent, but there are innocent people who have no choice but to live in Palestine for various reasons. Israel is not innocent either. There has been leaked footage of some Israeli drones targeting Palestinians without discrimination, and some of them look like non-combatants. This isn't some rag-tag militant force. Israel has the power of a great military and with it should come the responsibility for their actions. People have a right to draw ire with their indiscriminant targeting of Palestinians. Bombing civilians is something you do if you're committing a genocide.

You are correct about some points but totally incorrect about others. Israel’s military is not some rag-tag operation, they are the strongest military force in the Middle East. They have the ability to wipe out any living being in the Gaza Strip and turn it into a parking lot if they wanted to but that is not the goal, the goal is to eliminate Hamas. 

Israel is not indiscriminately targeting Palestinians, which is plain to see because as shown above there has been more terrorist deaths than civilians, unfortunately civilian deaths are a result of war. 

Palestines do not have to stay in Gaza, they are allowed to live in Israel and many do. You cannot say the same about Jews. Jews cannot go to Gaza without facing violence or persecution, there are even signs saying that.

Release the hostages and there will be a ceasefire. Until then, Israel has every right to continue to eliminate Hamas.