Trapping Rewards
#21
(18th April 2020, 10:32 AM)AspectZero Wrote: A point I think is being missed, is that Campaign is a place to test your racing skill against other players, and win prizes for proving that you are the ultimate racer.

Untrue. A campaign is a series of official challenges that 1 or multiple players can complete.

In Platform Racing 2's case, the general principle is that you race against other players to obtain the prize, however I think It's only fair that we can break that principle in order to make an actual high quality campaign that everyone can enjoy. Traps are meant to be cooperative.
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#22
(18th April 2020, 10:41 AM)KIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Wrote: Untrue. A campaign is a series of official challenges that 1 or multiple players can complete.

In Platform Racing 2's case, the general principle is that you race against other players to obtain the prize, however I think It's only fair that we can break that principle in order to make an actual high quality campaign that everyone can enjoy. Traps are meant to be cooperative.
You're not going to get a better quality Campaign than the first two pages of Campaign.
-AspectZero
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#23
(18th April 2020, 10:47 AM)AspectZero Wrote: You're not going to get a better quality Campaign than the first two pages of Campaign.

That is an opinion.
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#24
(18th April 2020, 10:49 AM)KIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Wrote: That is an opinion.
The same goes for anything apposing it.
-AspectZero
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#25
(18th April 2020, 10:51 AM)AspectZero Wrote: The same goes for anything apposing it.

Untrue. I am God and everything I say is absolute truth and science.
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#26
(18th April 2020, 10:32 AM)AspectZero Wrote: A point I think is being missed, is that Campaign is a place to test your racing skill against other players, and win prizes for proving that you are the ultimate racer.
After 12 years, I would say its time to expand. I don't see why the some of the community has placed restrictions in their head on what can be accomplished. It doesn't have to be so black and white. Maybe it doesnt have to be an entire trap campaign, maybe 3 glitch levels ( 1 beginner, 1 intermediate , 1 expert), 3 frust levels, 3 trap levels (same setup). But most of us are way burnt out of campaign racing.
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#27
(18th April 2020, 10:56 AM)BronxBomber Wrote: After 12 years, I would say its time to expand. I don't see why the some of the community has placed restrictions in their head on what can be accomplished. It doesn't have to be so black and white. Maybe it doesnt have to be an entire trap campaign, maybe 3 glitch levels ( 1 beginner, 1 intermediate , 1 expert), 3 frust levels, 3 trap levels (same setup). But most of us are way burnt out of campaign racing.
You can create your own Campaign of traps, and submit it to Campaign of the month, that is the only way you will get your traps into Campaign. If you would like to continue your argument that Campaign should be expanded, save it for a PRF suggestion, or take it to Jiggmin2.com/aam. You will make no progress here, you will only have a water spout of opinions.
-AspectZero
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#28
(18th April 2020, 10:59 AM)AspectZero Wrote: You can create your own Campaign of traps, and submit it to Campaign of the month, that is the only way you will get your traps into Campaign. If you would like to continue your argument that Campaign should be expanded, save it for a PRF suggestion, or take it to Jiggmin2.com/aam. You will make no progress here, you will only have a water spout of opinions.
While I appreciate your feedback, I was unaware your decision was the end all, be all. I was unaware that the PR2 Suggestions forum was not for suggestions, that from what I'm seeing, a large percent of the active community agrees with, and that this was not a place for us to have an active discussion to formulate thoughts for a potential future, more-developed post.
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#29
(18th April 2020, 11:02 AM)BronxBomber Wrote: While I appreciate your feedback, I was unaware your decision was the end all, be all. I was unaware that the PR2 Suggestions forum was not for suggestions, that from what I'm seeing, a large percent of the active community agrees with, and that this was not a place for us to have an active discussion to formulate thoughts for a potential, future, more-developed post.
I was also unaware of this, perhaps I should add this to my database.
-AspectZero
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#30
(18th April 2020, 10:59 AM)AspectZero Wrote: You can create your own Campaign of traps, and submit it to Campaign of the month, that is the only way you will get your traps into Campaign. If you would like to continue your argument that Campaign should be expanded, save it for a PRF suggestion, or take it to Jiggmin2.com/aam. You will make no progress here, you will only have a water spout of opinions.

Hot take: You're not part of the staff, don't act like one, thanks.
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#31
If there were to be a traps campaign, it would have to be suitable for someone just starting the game and only playing the traps, also I think the 1st level should have enough variety to teach about most of the blocks and basic movement (like newbieland 2, newby train, etc.)
Now the scaling? I think having a higher curve (like making level 5 what level 9 in a normal campaign would be) is ok as long as it scales well (no jumps in difficulty and each level goes up about the same in difficulty)
á
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#32
(18th April 2020, 12:26 PM)Camer the Dragon Wrote: If there were to be a traps campaign, it would have to be suitable for someone just starting the game and only playing the traps, also I think the 1st level should have enough variety to teach about most of the blocks and basic movement (like newbieland 2, newby train, etc.)
Now the scaling? I think having a higher curve (like making level 5 what level 9 in a normal campaign would be) is ok as long as it scales well (no jumps in difficulty and each level goes up about the same in difficulty)
That's right, unfortunately the scaling in trap levels is far harder to judge - As your personal style and preferences develop, so does the trap styles you're competent at. Nearly all of the high quality trap levels has some personalized style going for it.
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#33
(18th April 2020, 12:40 PM)Tejs Wrote: That's right, unfortunately the scaling in trap levels is far harder to judge - As your personal style and preferences develop, so does the trap styles you're competent at. Nearly all of the high quality trap levels has some personalized style going for it.
Agreed that it's hard to judge a trap maps difficulty, however it's still possible to tier maps on level of difficulty based on the level of traps within the level, for instance 200 traps by emppy would be considered harder than classic traps by devious shadows based on the fact that the traps in the level are harder and it is a longer map, however granola traps by loggix is a shorter map but harder then all of them. I think as a trap community we could all come together to figure out 9 levels we think could fit into a campaign. Keeping in mind that you have a team in the LT discord that picks maps for AT.
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#34
(18th April 2020, 3:05 PM)__ Wrote: Agreed that it's hard to judge a trap maps difficulty, however it's still possible to tier maps on level of difficulty based on the level of traps within the level, for instance 200 traps by emppy would be considered harder than classic traps by devious shadows based on the fact that the traps in the level are harder and it is a longer map, however granola traps by loggix is a shorter map but harder then all of them. I think as a trap community we could all come together to figure out 9 levels we think could fit into a campaign. Keeping in mind that you have a team in the LT discord that picks maps for AT.
Yes, although I was only stating that the 9 maps on a new trapping campaign would not scale proportionally in difficulty for everyone.
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#35
(18th April 2020, 10:26 AM)KIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Wrote: You guys need to think about this on a bigger scale, you stated the reasons as to why It's a good idea, but if you want to make this project work you also need to consider why It isn't.

Humans are greedy by nature, this is no different. The people that are against this idea know beforehand that they probably won't be able to complete this campaign on their own to obtain the parts, meaning that before even considering it being a good idea, they will be against it.

This is where you need a plausible counter argument against those thoughts, and I shall propose my version of this idea;

- A campaign consisting of 9 levels
- Increasing difficulty
- 3 Basic difficulty trapworks > 3 Easy difficulty trapworks > 2 Medium difficulty trapworks > 1 Medium - Hard difficulty trapwork.
> This way, it introduces the players to traps and allows to progress through the challenges.
- The 3 last levels need 3 players minimum in order to have the special parts, making this campaign feel more like a campaign-challenge.
> As said previously by Magniloquent and Tejs, Campaigns as they are right now are just lame and repetitive, only a few levels are challenging enough to be considering "fun to play".

The game is old, so are the players. We shouldn't have a fix point of view, rather we should move forward. And this campaign accomplishes exactly that.

absolutely agree with this. as for my opinion, well, as someone who was very much a trapper years and years ago, I would love to see a trap campaign. it would be awesome to have an incentive to hop on and readily challenge myself in PR2 again.

alongside the challenge present, however, I think a trap campaign would allow us to make new from the old, a concept that partners the idea of moving the game forward as @KIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA mentioned. further, trap levels are some of the most engaging in the game and often require teamwork, which is something I think the campaign tab would enjoy.

of course, against this is the discussion of difficulty and tradition, though the reality is that trapworks can and will serve the tradition of the campaign. it's a given that a trap campaign would need to be structured to follow the precedent of a difficulty increase, something easily achieved through the three basic, three easy, two medium, one hard formula from the quote. I would suggest that this formula could even be amended to include a normal tutorial level as well as a tutorial to traps, with one basic trap level rounding out the first row of levels (everything else unchanged). alongside aiding the difficulty curve, this would ease a new player into the challenge and, most importantly, expose them to both racing and trapping, two extremely prominent areas of gameplay within PR2.

overall, I believe the trapping community has been largely left in the dark. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first thread on this site that directly concerns trappers. nevertheless, considering additions such as that of the Tournament server which specifically serves speedrunning/contest communities, I don't think a singular campaign is a crazy ask.
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#36
sounds like a good idea

but idk how you guys will rate which traps are harder than others. generally there are easy, medium, and hard trapworks but even the easy trapworks most likely have hard sections built into them (ex. basically any old trap level containing 5-10 sublevels of increasing difficulty).

also we need less water and arrow spam kthx
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#37
(20th April 2020, 4:29 PM)Tro Wrote: sounds like a good idea

but idk how you guys will rate which traps are harder than others. generally there are easy, medium, and hard trapworks but even the easy trapworks most likely have hard sections built into them (ex. basically any old trap level containing 5-10 sublevels of increasing difficulty).

also we need less water and arrow spam kthx

Maybe new traps levels will need to be made that are just easy, easy -> med, med, med -> hard
á
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#38
(20th April 2020, 4:29 PM)Tro Wrote: sounds like a good idea

but idk how you guys will rate which traps are harder than others. generally there are easy, medium, and hard trapworks but even the easy trapworks most likely have hard sections built into them (ex. basically any old trap level containing 5-10 sublevels of increasing difficulty).

also we need less water and arrow spam kthx

it'd be easy to gauge what NOT to include. I'd imagine we'd have requirements; maybe we'd do away with frust sections and/or solo traps and whatnot. we'd need to look at levels from a judicial viewpoint, i.e., does this level meet the criteria? will this section confuse players? how well-known is this glitch? (etc.)

also, not all easy trapworks end with a hard section. there are lots of levels from credible names I'm sure we'll draw from!
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