Existence of God

[James Temple]

Your entirely misunderstanding me. I am in no way referring to the Christian god, or any other religiously affiliated god. The idea of a "god" has existed in the minds of almost all people in the world for all of known history. There might be something to that. Your "god is dead" comment is overly dramatic and honestly its sounds like you heard that in a movie and thought it was deep and are now regurgitating it. I'd urge you to take a second and to try and distance yourself from the narrow idea of a god that falls under religion. 

There are a lot of valid and very interesting arguments against the existence of God but the points that you're making are... well... really not points at all. You're still stuck on the religion thing. The bible is just a book written by people. We are a tiny spec of dirt, in a tiny puff of dust in an unimaginably large universe (which might only be one of infinite others) existing in only 3(or 4 depending on how you look at it) dimensions (of a hypothesized 11 possible dimensions). I doubt any god would ever have any interest in micromanaging one of those little specs of dust, but my idea of God doesn't operate or think or exists as if it is some thing separate from you and I.

In my opinion, God isn't some thing, it is everything.

In my opinion, God is nothing. We can throw opinions at each other all day, and switching opinions will surely determine whether God exists or not.

EDIT: "God is Dead" is from German philosopher Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, for reference.

[Bluelightning]

Whatever "God" is, even if it did at one point exist, God is dead. Humanity is the closest thing to God there is, and boy does it suck. The "scripture" was written by a human, not a God. This planet was created long before humans could have ever been there to witness anything divine. Not even the first testament is correct... if God created Earth on the third day, how did the days pass?

Well, I'm pretty sure the "7 days" in the bible weren't actually 24 hour time periods, because that means if humans came in then, where would dinosaurs fit in xD. There are some really extreme Christians that believe it really is like that, the kind of people who put up billboards saying that evolution doesn't exist. I really dislike those kinds of people.

[James Temple]

Well, I'm pretty sure the "7 days" in the bible weren't actually 24 hour time periods, because that means if humans came in then, where would dinosaurs fit in xD. There are some really extreme Christians that believe it really is like that, the kind of people who put up billboards saying that evolution doesn't exist. I really dislike those kinds of people.

Long before the bible was written, the Egyptians built a system for hours in a day based off of decans, which is some constellation they used in astronomy. Each star rose at a specific time in the day, and each time a new one appeared, a decanal hour would pass. Sundials use part of or all of a 24 hour dial because they show the positions of the sun during the day.

A day on Earth is around 24 hours relative to the sun, but note that time is relative. A day on venus is 116 days and 18 hours in Earth time. So, if it took 3 days for God to make the sun, what celestial body did he use to keep track of that time? There's not really any good way of telling what time it is if the closest stars are Alpha Centauri A and B, 4.22 light years away.

[TropicalYeti]

Long before the bible was written, the Egyptians built a system for hours in a day based off of decans, which is some constellation they used in astronomy. Each star rose at a specific time in the day, and each time a new one appeared, a decanal hour would pass. Sundials use part of or all of a 24 hour dial because they show the positions of the sun during the day.

A day on Earth is around 24 hours relative to the sun, but note that time is relative. A day on venus is 116 days and 18 hours in Earth time. So, if it took 3 days for God to make the sun, what celestial body did he use to keep track of that time? There's not really any good way of telling what time it is if the closest stars are Alpha Centauri A and B, 4.22 light years away.

You seem really caught up with this whole 3 day thing so let me help you out; people wrote the bible, not God.

[James Temple]

You seem really caught up with this whole 3 day thing so let me help you out; people wrote the bible, not God.

Exactly, so I find it hard to believe a scripture saying God exists over rocks that are thousands of years older that say he doesn't.

[TropicalYeti]

Exactly, so I find it hard to believe a scripture saying God exists over rocks that are thousands of years older that say he doesn't.

At this point it honestly seems like you're trolling. I refuse to believe that you are that dense.

[James Temple]

At this point it honestly seems like you're trolling. I refuse to believe that you are that dense.

Using condescension as an argument? You're hardly worth arguing with. This planet has existed far longer than humanity; far longer than the people who wrote the bible could have predicted at their time. With progression in science taking a turn for the better in this modern day and age, we're closer to outer space than we ever were. We already have a very solid prediction for most of Earth's history as a planet and as a home. Humans were not there for the start of it. They were not even there for the first millenia.

Even if some God made Earth, that God has long forsaken us and humanity does not deserve reconciliation with any creator.

[TropicalYeti]

Using condescension as an argument? You're hardly worth arguing with. This planet has existed far longer than humanity; far longer than the people who wrote the bible could have predicted at their time. With progression in science taking a turn for the better in this modern day and age, we're closer to outer space than we ever were. We already have a very solid prediction for most of Earth's history as a planet and as a home. Humans were not there for the start of it. They were not even there for the first millenia.

Even if some God made Earth, that God has long forsaken us and humanity does not deserve reconciliation with any creator.

You don't have to agree with me, but if you're gonna argue, it would help if you used legitimate arguments. Obviously earth has existed much longer than humans. I don't think god "made humans". I do think there is a possibility of an intelligence behind the very laws of physics and matter that allowed for life to happen (And it's a statistical certainty that life exists all over the universe). But forget life, the very fact that there is anything at all is absolutely mind blowing. Something had to exist before the big bang, even if it existed in a way that we cant even come close to understanding. And, logically, something before that. What set everything into motion? Maybe a god, but more likely something entirely alien to our understanding of "things".

If something so small as an animal can manifest intelligence through the laws of physics (as we know them whatever they really are) then I think it's entirely possible that something infinitely larger and more complex than an animal (The universe but more importantly everything beyond the universe) can also manifest intelligence.

Our brains make us think that we as humans are somehow separate from the things around us. That we (life as we understand it) are the only things that can be conscious, but that is really an illusion. If you ever experience ego-death through the use of psychedelics this reality becomes glaringly obvious and the mystery and inconceivable miracle that consciousness is, becomes that much more amazing. What consciousness is is still an absolute mystery and there's reason to believe that the existence of consciousness exists far beyond our tiny spec of dirt. Trust me, we're not THAT special. But even without psychedelics, the realizations can still be made, for example through the dedicated practice of meditation. Or simply through education.

I think you might benefit from approaching this question from a more philosophical (and yes even scientific) angle. Right now, you're taking a more biblical approach and I think we both agree that that doesn't help anyone. Think larger. Think beyond.

At the end of the day nobody knows what is true and what is not. However, through critical thought, one can begin to understand the amazing beauty and wonder of their own existence and I think that benefits everyone, whether or not you believe in God.

[James Temple]

Great, because I'm tired of reading the bible over and over.

Scientifically, I don't think we're alone. We're living people, together with so many species of animals and plants and fungi and everything else living on earth. We're all carbon based life forms. That being said, all the life we know is nothing but carbon based. The current scientific consensus doesn't provide for any other kind of life form outside of theory (silicon based life?) when in reality it could be so much more than that.

Chemical reactions can only provide for so much energy. Nuclear fission and fusion can provide for so much more, and even more than that, gravitational pull. There could be life forms based around these kinds of energy releases as opposed to chemical ones, and we'll never know until we actually go out and check one of these days. Given that there are such life forms, and those life forms could possibly be conscious, if you consider that a god, sure. Maybe God does exist in that sense. Maybe the Sun IS our God (I mean, it did create us, but what created it?)

Some see life on earth through chemical reactions as a miracle, but I find life through chemical reactions and bonding a miracle in and of itself. For these reactions to provide for life which is so tiny is almost beyond comprehension. But we're probably not alone. There probably is some greater form of existence (not divine) out there, and it probably would never have guessed that something like us could've possibly been made, either.

[TropicalYeti]

Great, because I'm tired of reading the bible over and over.

Scientifically, I don't think we're alone. We're living people, together with so many species of animals and plants and fungi and everything else living on earth. We're all carbon based life forms. That being said, all the life we know is nothing but carbon based. The current scientific consensus doesn't provide for any other kind of life form outside of theory (silicon based life?) when in reality it could be so much more than that.

Chemical reactions can only provide for so much energy. Nuclear fission and fusion can provide for so much more, and even more than that, gravitational pull. There could be life forms based around these kinds of energy releases as opposed to chemical ones, and we'll never know until we actually go out and check one of these days. Given that there are such life forms, and those life forms could possibly be conscious, if you consider that a god, sure. Maybe God does exist in that sense. Maybe the Sun IS our God (I mean, it did create us, but what created it?)

Some see life on earth through chemical reactions as a miracle, but I find life through chemical reactions and bonding a miracle in and of itself. For these reactions to provide for life which is so tiny is almost beyond comprehension. But we're probably not alone. There probably is some greater form of existence (not divine) out there, and it probably would never have guessed that something like us could've possibly been made, either.

So we're definitely on the same page here when it comes to the theoretical possibility of the ways life can manifest. So to clarify what God is to me is a consciousness that has manifested out of EVERYTHING, and as I've found, there are a good many people who also imagine god in a similar light.. A greater consciousness of which we are only tiny little cells, much like the bacteria that lives on our skin and in our bodies. You are right about chemical reactions and bonding being a miracle. The fact that physical laws exist is a miracle. What is the driving force behind these realities? What about the forces that exist which we are unaware of? Perhaps there is an intelligence which makes these things so. Perhaps this intelligence is purposeful in its action, but only in the broadest sense of the word. 

Maybe god is just a supercomputer. I don't know, but the idea of a greater consciousness which flows through everything seems very plausible to me. The infinity-ness of everything that exists is absolutely perplexing to me.

[James Temple]

What drives physical laws to exist? Just like people, physics follow the path that grants them the greatest reward for the least amount of energy input. What causes energy to be expended so much? Well... energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. That is a conversion method. Energy can be converted into matter, and vice versa if you do the right things. You can easily convert these things back and forth if you use chemical or nuclear methods to do so, but... what about physically?

Perhaps, in the beginning, there was just a huge blob of stuff. That stuff is our universe, but because of gravity, we're all one part of a clump. There's gotta be something else out there. As we get closer to that other big blob, our universe speeds up and the things inside of it begin to spread out as the speed increases. I'm talking about a conversion of matter through gravity.

It might be hard to see what I'm talking about here, but it's easy to visualize this with black holes. As an object, let's say... a comet, begins to circle around a black hole, it begins to get faster and faster as it gets closer. More and more material from the comet may get pulled into the black hole, but as a result of this cost, the leftover comet will become faster and faster until it's either fast enough to escape the orbit (given it hasn't reached the event horizon) or it ultimately falls into the black hole (and when it does, the resulting collision will be much bigger of an output than any chemical or nuclear reaction could hope to achieve). The comet would be going ridiculously fast. It wouldn't be nuclear powered, nor chemically powered by fuels. It gets its kinetic energy from something as simple as gravity, but as a cost, its components become more and more spread out and move much faster.

This isn't new. This is how atoms work. They come together in the way that uses the least amount of energy. Electrons are in orbit around the nucleus, so fast that they cannot stop going around and around the nucleus and get too close, but the gravity between the two as well as the magnetism (because one is negative, one is positive) keeps the electrons from flying out so far. If the electrons lost their outward velocity, they would just get pulled into the nucleus, resulting in a nuclear explosion. The collision is like a mini version of what happens when something gets pulled into a black hole, only with a black hole you'll never see what happens due to its immense gravitational pull.

I think our universe is a result of... whatever big blob we are rotating around something, or getting closer to something bigger than us. Perhaps we'll never touch it. Perhaps we are the electron, rotating around the nucleus of which we will never be able to touch.

Do I think there's something that defines these laws of physics? If you ask me, our blob does. Do I consider it a God? No. But you can. I don't really care either way.

[TropicalYeti]

And this blob simply appeared from nothing? That's illogical. So something caused the blob to happen. and something caused that something to happen. Where did it begin? How did nothing become something? How does anything exists? What is the unmoved mover? Maybe God, whatever God is.

[~Bowl]

What if we become so technologically advanced - or perhaps already there, like for example the particle collider from CERN, that we accidentally create the big bang, thus meaning we are our own gods? Destined to repeat history over and over again?

*passes blunt*

[James Temple]

And this blob simply appeared from nothing? That's illogical. So something caused the blob to happen. and something caused that something to happen. Where did it begin? How did nothing become something? How does anything exists? What is the unmoved mover? Maybe God, whatever God is.

Our theories about the laws of physics are only as good as the evidence. Just because the laws of physics work here, does not mean they work where there is nothing. Hell, there may easily be a place where 0 = 1, or 0 does not equal 0, or perhaps there's a place where there is a conversion method between nothingness and somethingness. Whatever drove that conversion must've come from something. Something wanted there to not be nothing. As I've stated before, everything tends to follow the path that leads to the greatest result with the least effort, just as atoms want to be connected in the way that makes them use up the least energy, just as lightning follows the path of least resistance, etc. For all we know, nothing takes up a lot of energy to uphold. Perhaps it takes less energy for everything to exist than there is for nothing to exist. Something can't make nothing not exist. That wouldn't make sense. It doesn't even make sense grammatically.

[molten900]

The way I see it, one that controls everything with purely their will is evil. I don't believe in any sort of god, never have, never will. Though many say we are what we chose to be, I'm a firm believer in facts.

[Jessica Rocks]

I was raised in a really religious household. I strongly believed in God when I was little... but as I got older and learned about him by reading the bible he bothered me. God isn't very nice, especially in the old testament. Sending she-bears to kill dozens of children for teasing a bald dude. Decimating populations of innocent men, women and children just because God promised their land to some dude many years ago. My parents' religion also teaches that one day in the near future, God is going to smite each and every person that has had a chance to join our religion but hasn't... basically billions of people. 
It seems to me that the Abrahamic God was created by a bunch of racist, sexist old men trying to control masses of people through fear. For me, an all-just, all-powerful, all-loving god doesn't fit with whats in the bible.

Jesus was pretty cool though. The new testament is much more mellow. Except for all those books fixated on circumcision.

I'm an agnostic. I doubt there is a god or gods and there's no way to prove their existence.
Maybe there is some type of intelligent energy out there. When I sit and think about it I like to imagine there are two of them, one "positive" and the other "negative" but both essential and balancing each other.

[thefleebs]

Religion is exploited ignorance. It's been used to control people as long as people have existed.

[Acno]

I dont know.
All i know is i must believe tis pretty much the only thing that keeps the spirit in me.
I always felt like god watched over me, he made my life feel the merrier, the warmer and i almost died 3 times, i barely got away from once falling infront of an approaching train i was super sleepy and almost fell but something pulled me back, another time i fell from the podium in a school event and i would have fell on my back and hit my spine hard but when i landed i was turned around which was impossible considering i fell backwards and didnt turn any directions, and another time i almost fell from the cliffside sliding off a root that wasnt attached to the ground.
Surely any of these events can be written off, all i know is all the good things in my life felt like they came from someone or somewhere specifically, there was this strange sense of protection in my soul, as if i was kept safe, untill out of desperation i started searching on my own and went full mental because i thought knowledge will fix me up, needless to say i was wrong, knowledge only justifies its own arguments, its a perspective bias that it comes with and there is no changing that, to further knowledge we must always expand our boundries therefore reshape who we know ourselves to be for everything we learn we add to ourseles, burdening our conscience and shaping our own souls, since questions only grow troubles grow aswell, the stress the problems that come with it, unless you are just living yeah, well, that is the best option i suppose.

Can god's existence be proven? I dont know.
All i know is that i need god and i feel better thinking, believing that there is someone out there that cares about me regardless of how insignificant life may make me feel at times.
So my argument goes rather to turn around the perspective and question whether proofs are really necessary for if effectiveness is the measure, shouldnt we focus on enriching ourselves instead of arguing meaninglessly about empty things that lack contenance to the soul, or who feels right or completely confident in his right?

Ultimately all we know of the world is what we think we know of it, everything is subjective and vague, nothing is truly proven, there is no 1/1 knowledge, at least not accessible as for the time being.

~And considering my decade long observations i think the mind merely interprets what it thinks and know about, always operating within a limited box of thoughts and experiences that can constantly boarden, its only a matter of time and questioning, so perhaps instead of arguing against or for god ask yourself if you are looking hard enough in your heart? Its at least worth a try.. no?

[Thales4000]

no but if yes then this god is a jerk

[MoonFiredk]

I wont vote because, sometimes i might Think, while other times i dont think.
And for me it maybe a bit ?.