Working From Home vs Office

[Master Raiden]

Something that happened

I have a 9-5 office job and today, I had a meeting with my manager and the head of HR (scary, I know!)
The meeting was called because my team was asked by the CEO to work in the office 4 days a week (up from 1-2 days) and I was only in the office 3 days a week. Doesn't seem like a big deal. All I had to do was explain why and I could get back to work!

But I couldn't have been more mistaken.

After giving my reasons and briefly mentioning how I didn't agree with being forced to work in the office that often, the HR person went on the offensive! They labeled my disagreement as having a "bad attitude" and began lecturing me about how I shouldn't have such a bad attitude at my relatively young age. Then came the scolding. They told me it was a "serious offence" to disobey a directive from the CEO and that I could potentially get fired for my heinous crime. At one point, they asked me if I even wanted to work there, and that if I was unhappy with the arrangement, I should find another employer who suits me better.
Brilliant. I have heard something similar on Hotel Hell before, and this clip is how I would have loved to respond.



What an over-the-top reaction to what is basically a non-issue. All I did was work an extra day from home and they are acting like I lost the company millions of dollars. They even noted it down on my employee record. One strike down, two or three more and I will get fired for the crime of doing my work at a different location.

This got me pretty upset because I had genuine reasons to do what I did, but I didn't bother telling them because it seems like any more disagreements would make them even angrier. When I'm just a regular employee facing off against the head of HR who has decades of experience at making people follow orders, they can shut me down with their superior authority and power, so I'm quite helpless.
And that's precisely the reason why I am writing this, because I feel like I'm walking on eggshells at work now and I would probably get into a lot of trouble if I said the things I'm saying here.


Working from Home vs Office

Now the working from home vs working in the office debate is nothing new. People have been talking about it ever since Covid, and I'm surprised at how many people are still on the "working in the office" side. Honestly, I thought my current employer, who has been pretty pleasant to work for up until now, would be a bit smarter about this.

Call me crazy, but results are far more important than where I sit when I deliver them.
And that is because:
1. The area of the company I work in solely exists to make money
2. I was hired to make money
3. My KPIs measure how much money I make for the company

So the fact that they are taking working from home so seriously makes no sense.

What do you think? Would you fire an outstanding employee because they did their work from home?
Is office attendance more important than bringing value to the company?

My takeaways from this

• The power dynamic is strong. People above you in the corporate ladder can boss you around and you can't do anything about it.
  
• Blind obedience is mandatory, even if it is not reasonable or beneficial.
  Disagreements = Bad Attitude.
  
• Office attendance first, productivity and results second.
  Note that I have voluntarily worked weekends/nights to get urgent work done (sometimes without compensation) and have exceeded my KPIs every year, yet here they are spitting in my face like they don't value any of that.
  
• The meeting took 30 minutes and achieved little. Will there be another meeting to address this blatant waste of time?
  
• Gordon Ramsay thinks my head of HR is disrespectful and disgusting.
  

This is a massive shame, but it's better to find out now than never.
Also, sorry for the negativity. I just needed to rant

[Mia]

Sometimes at a job it can feel like you have to shut up and do as you're told, even if it doesn't make sense. It just sounds like bad management to me. The fact that they told you to find a more suitable employer is a major red flag.

[Different]

First off, I commend you for opening up on this public forum and speaking your mind. It tells me that you’re not afraid to tell us what’s going on in your life. Not a lot of people have the guts to publicly open up about their problems, especially the way you did. Here’s my perspective on your scenario here:

1) A lot of the old heads (particularly baby boomers, and unfortunately Gen-Xers now) seem to jump to conclusions with all the young guys (particularly Gen Zs under 30) assuming that they’ll make excuses for not obeying orders or being absent from the work premises. I’m sure you had a genuine reason for being unable to show up to work. But these clowns that you’re dealing with are old school, and even though you may have been honest and mannerable about the situation, they took it as “this kid is just another punk who’s hardheaded and likes to break the rules”. That’s it. That’s all they hear.

2) Unfortunately, on a regular basis, they’re right about the part where they said “it’s a serious offense to disobey a directive from the CEO”. However, I don’t see it as being a “heinous crime”, let alone firing someone over something that could be a legitimate reason. What if you had to tend to a sick, loved one who’s disabled? Now what?… Are they going to fire you for that? You get what I’m saying? They only dismissed it as you having a bad attitude because it sounds like they like to micromanage everyone to ensure that you guys are fattening their wallets.

3) You can’t let those HR, CEO, and managers intimidate you like that. All they care about is making money, and that’s it. When these large corporations roll in six and seven figure checks, then they become obsessed and forget where they came from. They probably thought that the sales data chart would plummet or something if an employee wasn’t in the office.

4) The nerve of them to tell you to “find another employer who suits you better”. Are you freakin’ kidding me?! You see, this is why I encouraged a lot of you guys to start your own business instead of slaving a 9-5 job because they can abuse their power, fire you, lay you off, and work the shit outta you. Unless you have a great employer who’s not an asshole, then I’d be looking for another job.

5) I think we all would have felt like doing what this guy did to handle a scenario like your’s.

[Master Raiden]

A lot of the old heads (particularly baby boomers, and unfortunately Gen-Xers now) seem to jump to conclusions with all the young guys (particularly Gen Zs under 30) assuming that they’ll make excuses for not obeying orders or being absent from the work premises.

Yeah, I felt like I was in detention and they were the teacher lecturing me. It was honestly quite disrespectful.

Unfortunately, on a regular basis, they’re right about the part where they said “it’s a serious offense to disobey a directive from the CEO”. However, I don’t see it as being a “heinous crime”, let alone firing someone over something that could be a legitimate reason.
What if you had to tend to a sick, loved one who’s disabled? Now what?… Are they going to fire you for that?

I don't really agree with that. Just because the CEO says something doesn't mean it's a good idea. What if the CEO is wrong about what he's asking for?
If I said that people are no longer allowed to wear clothing that doesn't match the company's colors, I'm sure everyone would ignore me and think I'm an idiot. But if the CEO said that, they would probably comply.
How does that make logical any sense? People need to stop for a moment and think about what they're being asked to do.
And if they're simply listening to the CEO because they don't want to get in trouble, then that's also a problem. People higher up should not act like dictators and people should be able to act for the benefit of the company, not just suck up to those above them.

What if you had to tend to a sick, loved one who’s disabled? Now what?… Are they going to fire you for that?

It wasn't that bad. They would be more understanding if I was in that kind of situation, but if I tried to tell them about how the work I do doesn't require me to be in the office all the time, they wouldn't want to hear it.

You can’t let those HR, CEO, and managers intimidate you like that. All they care about is making money, and that’s it.

It's funny you say that because it feels like the opposite. They seem to care more about obedience.
And if that's what they want, I found a company policy that would prevent some people in my team from being able to work. And as they said, ignoring policies is a "serious offence".
So we'll see how they respond when they have to choose between productivity and following company policies. They can't have both.

The nerve of them to tell you to “find another employer who suits you better”. Are you freakin’ kidding me?!

Yeah, I hate when people say things like that. Instead of trying to be more accommodating and making the company a better place for people to work at, they decide to change nothing and simply avoid the problem altogether by asking people to leave.

[Different]

I don't really agree with that. Just because the CEO says something doesn't mean it's a good idea. What if the CEO is wrong about what he's asking for?
If I said that people are no longer allowed to wear clothing that doesn't match the company's colors, I'm sure everyone would ignore me and think I'm an idiot. But if the CEO said that, they would probably comply.
How does that make logical any sense? People need to stop for a moment and think about what they're being asked to do.
And if they're simply listening to the CEO because they don't want to get in trouble, then that's also a problem. People higher up should not act like dictators and people should be able to act for the benefit of the company, not just suck up to those above them.

I meant if there’s a valid reason behind their statement. Now obviously if the CEO is wrong by their statement, then you must be prepared to prove it and point it out. Otherwise you’re landing yourself into hot, boiling water. I’m not saying that you’re in the wrong here… I’m just saying that a lot of corporate folks are very good at having valid reasons for doing things, even though they could be wrong.

This is why you have to understand that when you’re playing chess against the big boys (particularly a CEO), then you have to be prepared to checkmate them when you see an opening. A lot of corporations will lie and twist company policies to benefit them and make you look foolish. You’re not the first guy whom they’ve dealt with before, so they know how to play this game really well.

The only time something ever makes sense is if there’s a valid reason. But if you suspect that there isn’t one, then you have to look for that opening and trap them. Just like you see a certain side of the chess board that’s too weak and defenseless to protect the king.

It wasn't that bad. They would be more understanding if I was in that kind of situation, but if I tried to tell them about how the work I do doesn't require me to be in the office all the time, they wouldn't want to hear it.

They wouldn’t want to hear it because they don’t care. If they really valued you as an employee than they would have been more understanding about your situation. They basically told you how they really feel about you. These employers have something against Gen Zs, bro. They think that you’re lounging around and being lazy working from home. They have that old school mentality because they grew up going to a job site, 5 days a week.

It's funny you say that because it feels like the opposite. They seem to care more about obedience.
And if that's what they want, I found a company policy that would prevent some people in my team from being able to work. And as they said, ignoring policies is a "serious offence".
So we'll see how they respond when they have to choose between productivity and following company policies. They can't have both.

As long as productivity is being achieved at home, then why should it bother them in the first place? If you know the policy really well, then you can discuss it with a good lawyer and dispute it in court if they threaten to fire you for this. Like I said before: if they don’t have a valid reason, then you can plan your attack. “Serious offense”. Ok, under what circumstance? You see what I mean?

[Sunlight123]

I think a lot of businesses are afraid of people working from home for the obvious reason is it's harder to monitor them. For companies that work for a corporation I imagine corporate probably breaths down the bosses throats just as much as the boss breaths down their workers throats.

Regarding logic, you can't expect much from them. The sad fact is most businessmen don't get where they are by being logical. It's not like they're held to high standards in academics regarding math or science. They get where they are by having good connections, being lucky and knowing how to take credit for it, and when they are unlucky knowing how to pass the buck.

Even if you are 100% right that you are more, or equally as efficient, from home, do not expect them to listen to this line of reasoning, valid as it is. It not a "good look" to work from home and "good looks" are often how businessmen manage to stay in power. Businessmen advertise the appearance of themselves and their company. Working remotely simply "looks bad" and that is where they will draw the line.

---

Regarding the toxicity, I am more concerned about that.

Of course, I wasn't there, so I don't know how bad it was, and if it was truly toxic or not. I like to assume the worst possible version of events as it is better to prepare for the worst. I do recommend searching for another job as a plan B. Dogmatic and angry leadership is always a very dangerous combination. One more recommendation...

I don't know where you live or what your local laws are, but I live in the US and I know about wiretapping laws here. Some states in the US are called "one-party wiretapping" or "one-party consent" states, meaning you can legally record any conversation with anyone secretly. This includes secretly recording conversations with your boss and/or HR. (Note: It's called 'wiretapping laws' because the law go back historically, but it does applies to in-person environments too despite the name.) If this is legal where you live, I highly recommend doing this whenever you're in a 1-on-1 environment with them.

Why? For one, you can show other coworkers what you're going through. For two, it is always possible that your boss and/or HR may say something illegal. They may make promises (contracts) that they later break, or work you more hours than you're being paid, or work you more hours than they're legally allowed to, ect. Always some labor law they might break if they're toxic. It is also possible that they may go too far in a fit of rage and say/do things that can be the basis for a "Hostile Workplace Environment" lawsuit. (Note: From what I understand, In the US, you are extremely unlikely to get a "Hostile Workplace Environment" lawsuit to happen. Pretty much your boss/HR would have to say something racist, sexist, sometimes age-ist works but usually not, or they have to push you until you literally have a mental or physical breakdown. Lawsuits suck.)

And yeah I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice blah blah.

[LCPD]

I find upper management can have their heads up their ass when it comes to things like this. I seen cases where they mandate everyone to return to the office but the upper’s still work from home. Honestly the reasons to come back to the office make no sense, such as “office culture and “meetings” that mostly can be done via Teams. (I hate Teams with a passion). But sadly work from home is going away like the dodo.

My situation is completely different as my workplace has maintained a 50% work from home policy, which entails working every other day at home during the 2 week work schedule and I like this balance. I enjoy working from home and it’s my perk to why I stay where I am. I know friends in other areas that have the same or reduced wfh hours. I like the balance since I get to leave the house and do my errands when I’m in the office. It also helps me save money on transportation costs.

[Master Raiden]

For companies that work for a corporation I imagine corporate probably breaths down the bosses throats just as much as the boss breaths down their workers throats.

Yeah, that's true. My manager said that he didn't want to be monitoring office attendance and the HR person admitted that most people weren't happy with the return-to-office mandate. I wonder how they feel about enforcing something they don't believe in.

Regarding logic, you can't expect much from them. The sad fact is most businessmen don't get where they are by being logical.
...
They get where they are by having good connections, being lucky and knowing how to take credit for it, and when they are unlucky knowing how to pass the buck.

That's so unfair and unfortunate. Looking good seems to be more important than actually being good, I suppose.

For one, you can show other coworkers what you're going through. For two, it is always possible that your boss and/or HR may say something illegal. They may make promises (contracts) that they later break, or work you more hours than you're being paid, or work you more hours than they're legally allowed to, ect. Always some labor law they might break if they're toxic. It is also possible that they may go too far in a fit of rage and say/do things that can be the basis for a "Hostile Workplace Environment" lawsuit.

That's a good idea, especially when HR is the one coming at me. Normally when people do things to you in the workplace, you'd report it to HR. But it wouldn't make sense report HR's conduct to themselves in this case, so I have no one to turn to right now.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, by the way.