18th April 2020, 1:19 AM
(This post was last modified: 18th April 2020, 1:20 AM by Northadox. Edited 2 times in total.)
I've been thinking recently about the more hardcore side of PR2 and perhaps returning to this challenge once again, but there's just one tenant about the GGP that just baffles me.
What was the thinking behind this rule? I'm trying to think of the justifications in my head, and while there are some mild positives, I just think in large it hurts this challenge's appeal to many simply because it's needlessly punishing and grating, which I think is especially grating to the small population the game has had. I've had this sentiment for a while now, I just had the impetus to make an argument against it only recently. To counter some potential justifications:
1) Judge scheduling. Some judges don't have the time and day to sit on a person continually trying to best their scores, and while that can be an issue, it's entirely in the judge's power to state that they're unavailable. Really, if a person wants to try a cup again the same day, what is the harm in that, judging-wise?
2) Straight up being punishing. It is a challenge, and for a game with such as long of a legacy as PR2, it's equally expected for all participants to have been honing their skills in that time. The skill element is already present with getting the best times possible on all levels on a given cup, and with the daily limit, you're just giving needless stress on a player. With PR2 itself, you have infinite tries on any given stage if you're trying to beat it. It's not like The Legend boots you out if you fail to beat it in time when you're trying to overcome that damn vanish block section and forces you to wait a day to try again. If we consider GGP as an extension of PR2, I've never heard of any other game putting limits on attempting things unless it's a mobile game where waiting is a mechanic used to encourage the player to purchase premium currency to skip over it. As it stands, it's needless tedium and an arbitrary source for tension during the races, and not because of the levels themselves.
3) Prize exploitation. Suppose this rule didn't exist; now, allegedly, someone could continually do the challenge and reap the rewards of it with no time in between. This is, really, a complete non-issue. If someone is good enough to conquer the challenge, they should definitely be entitled to claim its rewards at any time because they've earned it with their superb racing skills. Platform Racing 3 rewards prizes for acquiring a good enough par time on campaign levels; pretty much what GGP is going for, sans the multiple-level aspect to it. There is no waiting period, there is no imbalance. PR3's time trial system is what GGP pretty much is, but considering updating PR2 with a time trial system like that is hard, GGP should simply be the substitute for that with a handpicked assortment of levels and nothing more.
4) Tradition. This is probably the biggest point on why it's still a rule. This contest was assuredly started by TRUC (hence the lovely Goliathe namesake) over on JV many years ago by now, and since then, many contestants have triumphed despite the harshness of the rule. Changing it now would only be a disservice to those who overcame the challenge before, but must it really? One can practice as many times as needed before giving a cup a shot on any given day. In addition, as the rules state, you can only try one cup per day. Why? If a player wants to try multiple cups in a day, I see no reason why not, provided judges are available. A contestant can practice as much as they'd wish beforehand and the daily time restriction only serves to act as an arbitrary source of annoyance.
Keep in mind that I'm not contesting the cup format, just the arbitrary try restriction, because consistently getting good times on a bunch of levels in a row is an agreeable challenge and fair in itself. The day waiting mechanic has no reason to exist, considering judge availability isn't an issue, it being a terribly arbitrary reason for difficulty, guarantees awards all the same, and honestly, seems like it's only present because it was originally there. What if the player makes a small mistake, or their connection acts up all the sudden, or if they're interrupted in the middle of a cup? What if they're really keen on clearing all the cups with flawless times, but are swamped with work with a scant few days of free time to give it a go? They'll all have to cope with the daily limit despite everything, and for this, I ask: what's wrong with giving it the boot?
I dug up this brief Discord conversation on the JV2 server and I'm glad AspectZero agrees with me on this. Stxtics agrees with Ashley over "it being too easy for you to do it again and that would be OP", but I strongly concur with Aspect who says that there's no difference besides the arbitrary wait time. Practice is practice at the end of the day. A determined player will still be able to conquer the challenges, with the wait times only acting as a needless barrier.
I hope whoever has authority over this challenge gives my argument a serious consideration, because I'd love to get back into this knowing that I can try it as many times as I'd like without the stupid and unnecessary tension the daily limit provides.
(31st August 2018, 11:25 PM)Dagg Wrote: - Only 1 attempt per day, on 1 account only.
What was the thinking behind this rule? I'm trying to think of the justifications in my head, and while there are some mild positives, I just think in large it hurts this challenge's appeal to many simply because it's needlessly punishing and grating, which I think is especially grating to the small population the game has had. I've had this sentiment for a while now, I just had the impetus to make an argument against it only recently. To counter some potential justifications:
1) Judge scheduling. Some judges don't have the time and day to sit on a person continually trying to best their scores, and while that can be an issue, it's entirely in the judge's power to state that they're unavailable. Really, if a person wants to try a cup again the same day, what is the harm in that, judging-wise?
2) Straight up being punishing. It is a challenge, and for a game with such as long of a legacy as PR2, it's equally expected for all participants to have been honing their skills in that time. The skill element is already present with getting the best times possible on all levels on a given cup, and with the daily limit, you're just giving needless stress on a player. With PR2 itself, you have infinite tries on any given stage if you're trying to beat it. It's not like The Legend boots you out if you fail to beat it in time when you're trying to overcome that damn vanish block section and forces you to wait a day to try again. If we consider GGP as an extension of PR2, I've never heard of any other game putting limits on attempting things unless it's a mobile game where waiting is a mechanic used to encourage the player to purchase premium currency to skip over it. As it stands, it's needless tedium and an arbitrary source for tension during the races, and not because of the levels themselves.
3) Prize exploitation. Suppose this rule didn't exist; now, allegedly, someone could continually do the challenge and reap the rewards of it with no time in between. This is, really, a complete non-issue. If someone is good enough to conquer the challenge, they should definitely be entitled to claim its rewards at any time because they've earned it with their superb racing skills. Platform Racing 3 rewards prizes for acquiring a good enough par time on campaign levels; pretty much what GGP is going for, sans the multiple-level aspect to it. There is no waiting period, there is no imbalance. PR3's time trial system is what GGP pretty much is, but considering updating PR2 with a time trial system like that is hard, GGP should simply be the substitute for that with a handpicked assortment of levels and nothing more.
4) Tradition. This is probably the biggest point on why it's still a rule. This contest was assuredly started by TRUC (hence the lovely Goliathe namesake) over on JV many years ago by now, and since then, many contestants have triumphed despite the harshness of the rule. Changing it now would only be a disservice to those who overcame the challenge before, but must it really? One can practice as many times as needed before giving a cup a shot on any given day. In addition, as the rules state, you can only try one cup per day. Why? If a player wants to try multiple cups in a day, I see no reason why not, provided judges are available. A contestant can practice as much as they'd wish beforehand and the daily time restriction only serves to act as an arbitrary source of annoyance.
Keep in mind that I'm not contesting the cup format, just the arbitrary try restriction, because consistently getting good times on a bunch of levels in a row is an agreeable challenge and fair in itself. The day waiting mechanic has no reason to exist, considering judge availability isn't an issue, it being a terribly arbitrary reason for difficulty, guarantees awards all the same, and honestly, seems like it's only present because it was originally there. What if the player makes a small mistake, or their connection acts up all the sudden, or if they're interrupted in the middle of a cup? What if they're really keen on clearing all the cups with flawless times, but are swamped with work with a scant few days of free time to give it a go? They'll all have to cope with the daily limit despite everything, and for this, I ask: what's wrong with giving it the boot?
I dug up this brief Discord conversation on the JV2 server and I'm glad AspectZero agrees with me on this. Stxtics agrees with Ashley over "it being too easy for you to do it again and that would be OP", but I strongly concur with Aspect who says that there's no difference besides the arbitrary wait time. Practice is practice at the end of the day. A determined player will still be able to conquer the challenges, with the wait times only acting as a needless barrier.
I hope whoever has authority over this challenge gives my argument a serious consideration, because I'd love to get back into this knowing that I can try it as many times as I'd like without the stupid and unnecessary tension the daily limit provides.
![[Image: aGf8Xvh.png]](https://i.imgur.com/aGf8Xvh.png)
