Pr2 Exp Change- Why isn't anybody talking about this?

[Different]

And I'd still be voting to leave it the way it is. It'd still devalue the higher ranks, whatever those "higher ranks" would be if macroing still wasn't allowed and the captcha was still in the game.

You keep saying that "It'd still devalue the higher ranks", but 8 years ago, I bet you your decision would have been different.

On the other hand, I get it... you worked hard to reach 77 and your used to living off 1k for the last 8 years, so I understood. It's different when you're a really high rank yourself. However, back then, we'd probably be on the same side with this one. At least 2k would have been better.

[Colind]

You're right @Different if we started this game brand new & everybody started the same rank (Rank 0) & we're able to get 2k-5k then it'd be awesome... but that isn't the case & it's unfair who already made milestones in the game who got to wait long period days to rank up for your idea to rip that away and have someone new can get it for far less...

If you look at my current exp bar of 284,867,032 exp & / by the average macro exp, which is 720,000 xp you'll take about 395-396 days to rank up.

Now this is what you're saying;

(2,000 xp/sim) 1,440,000 xp = 197-198 days

(3,000 xp/sim) 2,160,000 xp = 131-132 days

(4,000 xp/sim) 2,880,000 xp = 98-99 days

(5,000 xp/sim) 3,600,000 xp = 79-80 days

It's unfair that it took me 395-396 days then to have someone else get to my exp bar, let's say @AlphaZ for example & can get that rank in 79-80 days... that'd be complete bs.

Anyways, I feel like instead of increasing the exp in PR2 that maybe @bls1999 can just let's have Happy Days... where in the server Carina, Grayan, & Fitz it'll be Happy Hour 24/7. For example; Mon (Carina), Tue (Grayan), Wed (Fitz), Thur (Grayan), Fri (Carina), Sat (Fitz), Sun (Carina). This wouldn't be terrible because then the average of 720,000 xp/day would be 1,440,000 xp/day it'll still take a long time but it'll cut in half and that'd be fine for the moment.

We're at the point of the game where the only players that are active are macroers, trappers and few other players. It's time to give up the bs excuse "it's unfair to do that or it's too much exp" when the game is basically dead.. now if PR2 was active and running w/ 125 active players (no alts) then yeah i'd say no but everyone is slowly getting to the 70's and once everyone gets to mid 70's then it'll basically take half a year to rank up 1 rank which is dumb af.

I want to say sorry for my language but that's how I feel and I don't mean it to be disrespectful to anyone.

[Different]

You're right @Different if we started this game brand new & everybody started the same rank (Rank 0) & we're able to get 2k-5k then it'd be awesome... but that isn't the case & it's unfair who already made milestones in the game who got to wait long period days to rank up for your idea to rip that away and have someone new can get it for far less...

If you look at my current exp bar of 284,867,032 exp & / by the average macro exp, which is 720,000 xp you'll take about 395-396 days to rank up.

I wasn't implying starting the game at rank 0... I was talking about, currently. Also, if fairness is the case (which I can understand that), how about charging people in VOM for one hour- one time limit of at least 2k-5k experience, daily?

Now this is what you're saying;

(2,000 xp/sim) 1,440,000 xp = 197-198 days

(3,000 xp/sim) 2,160,000 xp = 131-132 days

(4,000 xp/sim) 2,880,000 xp = 98-99 days

(5,000 xp/sim) 3,600,000 xp = 79-80 days

It's unfair that it took me 395-396 days then to have someone else get to my exp bar, let's say @AlphaZ for example & can get that rank in 79-80 days... that'd be complete bs.

Ok so, here's my proposal: Have people buy experience in VOM, once a day, only. Example: 2k (one hour/once a day) for 500 coins, 3k for 1k coins, 4k for 1.5k coins, and 5k for 2.5k coins. Price isn't up to me. Just once a day. Doesn't do much harm.

Anyways, I feel like instead of increasing the exp in PR2 that maybe @bls1999 can just let's have Happy Days... where in the server Carina, Grayan, & Fitz it'll be Happy Hour 24/7. For example; Mon (Carina), Tue (Grayan), Wed (Fitz), Thur (Grayan), Fri (Carina), Sat (Fitz), Sun (Carina). This wouldn't be terrible because then the average of 720,000 xp/day would be 1,440,000 xp/day it'll still take a long time but it'll cut in half and that'd be fine for the moment.

Interesting idea. My only problem is that 1.4m still seems pretty slow, like you said. At least 2mil xp/daily would be more satisfying.

We're at the point of the game where the only players that are active are macroers, trappers and few other players. It's time to give up the bs excuse "it's unfair to do that or it's too much exp" when the game is basically dead.. now if PR2 was active and running w/ 125 active players (no alts) then yeah i'd say no but everyone is slowly getting to the 70's and once everyone gets to mid 70's then it'll basically take half a year to rank up 1 rank which is dumb af.

I want to say sorry for my language but that's how I feel and I don't mean it to be disrespectful to anyone.

No, you're not being disrespectful, you're speaking your mind. Don't worry about it, I'm not offended. But let's face it... @Jiggmin could have at least boosted the earnings to 2k on average and give people the option to pay for additional experience, once a day in VOM. Also, they should really implement some changes into the game, where players can reach up to 150. I mean c'mon now.

[FDX3]

I bet you your decision would have been different

I honestly don't think it would have been. I and others (far more people considering how much more populated the player base was) would have been saying the same thing - it devalues the old timers high ranks. But I also think that if there were ever a time for a boost to exp (as in, the exp awarded for beating other accounts) then back then in 12/13 at the time of the rank tokens update would've been it, as that was already a pretty major update to ranks/ranking up, and there were still plenty of active simmers/macroers at the time. Happy hours were introduced at around that time too, which itself was a major boost to exp rates. To have any of this now though seems super late.

Perhaps something like a new, separate ranking system could work alongside the current system somehow, so you'd have two ranks, one for each system. Those after more stat points could have them that way too. So kind of like @Tejs idea, but your main rank would still be the current system rank. The new, higher rank could be in brackets alongside your main rank, or something like that. Or even the other way around - your main rank in brackets, alongside the new rank. So for Colind for example, it would show him in lists as something like 80 (105) or 105 (80). That might be the best compromise to try to please all parties here.

[Camer the Dragon]

Jiggmin could have at least boosted the earnings to 2k on average and give people the option to pay for additional experience, once a day in VOM.

Technically he did via buying HH in VOM

[Lego-man945]

Perhaps something like a new, separate ranking system could work alongside the current system somehow, so you'd have two ranks, one for each system. Those after more stat points could have them that way too. So kind of like @Tejs idea, but your main rank would still be the current system rank. The new, higher rank could be in brackets alongside your main rank, or something like that. Or even the other way around - your main rank in brackets, alongside the new rank. So for Colind for example, it would show him in lists as something like 80 (105) or 105 (80). That might be the best compromise to try to please all parties here.

Idk if it is possible, but maybe we could add a new server (like Isabel) for a test? What I'm thinking is maybe we have an option when making a new character to play in normal servers or the experimental ones. Then, all players would be at an even playing field if a new system did get added (with only new players being able to use the new system?).

[Master Raiden]

TL;DR: Increasing the EXP earn rate won't work because the EXP formula is exponential. If anything, we should change the EXP formula instead so that the EXP required doesn't increase so fast.


I don't think anything should be changed.

Increasing the amount of EXP earned isn't really a good idea due to the fact that the EXP formula is exponential. 
It would bring about a pointless inflation of ranks. Say if the amount of EXP gained was doubled. That would allow you to achieve 3 extra ranks in the same amount of time. So now, 83 is the new 80, 78 is the new 75 and 73 is the new 70, and no one would feel more accomplished despite being higher ranked. In addition to this, it would also impact the ranking at the lower end. Newbies would be ranking up a bit faster than the game and campaigns were designed for, but that doesn't really matter since we're not getting any new players.

And it's not like EXP and ranks haven't become easier to earn.
Here's what's been changed (as far as I can remember):

• Welcome Back Bonus
  
• Happy Hours
  
• Artifact EXP bonus
  
• +200% EXP on Campaign
  
• Removal of 50% EXP reduction when beating players from the same IP address
  
• Increased EXP earn rate for the first 25,000 EXP earned each day
  
• Objective mode (for faster ranking of alts)
  
• Rank tokens to reduce the amount of EXP needed to rank up
  
• 5 additional rank tokens from F@H
  
• Huge EXP prizes from contests
  

If these changes hadn't been introduced, we would likely be in the same situation, except that the highest ranked players would be a few ranks lower. So increasing the EXP gained is not a good long-term solution. Any benefits will soon diminish and we'd all be back here asking for more EXP. The problem isn't that EXP takes too long to earn. It's that some players are too high-ranked. I don't think anyone would have expected players to sim/macro non-stop for 10+ years, so obviously the game wasn't designed to accommodate this.

So what is it that you want? A higher rank? Not needing 1 year of non-stop macroing to rank up? A feeling of accomplishment? Let's take a look at some options.

Increase EXP gain
As mentioned, this is not a good solution. It's only good if you want a higher rank.
To avoid us inevitably returning here asking for more EXP, why not just make one big change and be done with it?
Let's just increase the EXP earn rate (and multiply the lifetime EXP of all players) by 15 million. This means the Top 4 would have achieved Rank 150 and therefore beaten the game. Given that you currently need to be base Rank 73 before it takes 1 year (or more) to rank up, no one would be in that situation and the problem would be solved.

Change the EXP formula
This is probably something no one wants to change, but it's the formula that's causing the huge increase of EXP required at each subsequent rank. The amount of EXP you need at a certain rank is equal to 25% of your total lifetime EXP. So reducing this would make ranks faster to achieve.

The current EXP formula for the amount of EXP required at a certain rank is (1.25^rank) × 30
With a new formula, (1.15^rank) × 2000, higher ranks will require less EXP compared to now, but lower ranks will require more EXP to rank up. The crossover point is at Rank 50, where the amount of EXP required is almost the same.
However, after a few more years, the highest ranked players will still get to a point where it would take 1 year or more to rank up again.


Limit EXP required to rank up
So, what if we capped the amount of EXP required? If we limited the amount to 100 million EXP, then with the current EXP formula, every rank from base Rank 68 onwards will require 100 million EXP to rank up. This will let the macroers continue to rank up while not devaluing ranks below base Rank 68. 100 million is still a fairly large amount, so it would take a few more years of non-stop macroing before anyone gets to Rank 90+. But given that some have already been simming/macroing for over 10 years with no sign of stopping, that could be a possibility in the future.

Modify EXP formula after Rank X
To stop things getting out of hand, we could apply a different EXP formula after a certain rank. Instead of capping the EXP required to 100 million, we could reduce the amount it is increased. For example: 100 million, 120 million, 140 million etc. This would mean we'll eventually reach the point where it would take 1 year or more to rank up, so it's all about that balance.

Derank players on request
Sounds stupid, I know. But if the only problem for you is that it takes too long to rank up, then deranking yourself would be a good idea since it doesn't require any changes to the game's EXP system. Or you could just make a new account and rank that up instead.

[Camer the Dragon]

- snip -

I remember having some ideas a couple years ago for exp systems
altho I think they would not really be suited to PR2 given how long it has been around already although they could technically be retroactively applied

https://jiggmin2.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=2099
Post #2 if any1 interested (the actual reqs. are probably quite too low so specific numbers could be tweaked if need-be)

[Colind]

@Master Raiden Just want to say that you did a great post, also let's not forget that Jiggmin did his infamous captcha where you can get an additional 250 xp (I believe) when clicking on the right pictures.

I honestly think PR2 is done for, no need to change but whatever the future holds in the next PR serie (if there's one) that maybe they should consider the exp formula, exp bar, not tieing anything to the exp like (STATS POINTS *cough* @Jiggmin) then that way it shouldn't matter if you're Rank 1 or Rank 150.

[Different]

After reading recent posts, there seems to be conflict towards implementing an experience change in the game, but instead, valuing experience. Well, I can't say I didn't see this coming. Most of the feedback that I see are towards stat points, really. Speaking of Exp gain, even @Master Raiden made an entire graph just to reference his point. Honestly, I could sit here and reply back to each of you, but I decided that it's best to leave it alone, as this is probably a no-win situation, especially nowadays.

So, I'm just gonna let it go.

[Tejs]

Who exactly wants a rank to be 100 mil exp to level up? Do you even realize what kind of time that takes for anyone that doesn't sim or macro? It takes me YEARS to rank up once, the only reason I'm 53 is because I got macroed by one of my friends.

I understand that you don't want your macroing to be devalued, but if we don't change how much exp you gain but rather how much exp is needed per rank, you keep the exact same lead you've acquired over the years, only that you're rank 120 compared to our rank 90s

[FDX3]

Who exactly wants a rank to be 100 mil exp to level up? Do you even realize what kind of time that takes for anyone that doesn't sim or macro? It takes me YEARS to rank up once, the only reason I'm 53 is because I got macroed by one of my friends.

I understand that you don't want your macroing to be devalued, but if we don't change how much exp you gain but rather how much exp is needed per rank, you keep the exact same lead you've acquired over the years, only that you're rank 120 compared to our rank 90s

What you've suggested would devalue the current high ranks, and would be unfair to those who have already reached the 60-80 milestones. My idea above would have a system similar to what you've suggested running simultaneously with the current system as a compromise to try to please all parties. If it's mainly stat points you're after, this could also give you those stat points as they could come from the new ranks.

[Lego-man945]

So after looking at all of this, one of the main ideas for this is to create a different system for stats?
What would the normal rank become then? Obsolete? There would have to be some point to level up...

[FDX3]

What would the normal rank become then?

Essentially just cosmetic. I doubt many high ranks have ever cared much for having a few more stat points anyway; at rank 40-50 you already have plenty.

There would have to be some point to level up...

Prestige/nostalgia/goals.

[Different]

Bump. This thread got popular real fast. I wasn't expecting that.