THE FINAL STRAW 🏁

[Different]

Ladies and gentlemen, it's 2024 and it's time to make your final decisions about Platform Racing 2. A whole bunch of you were arguing in my latest thread about how nostalgia should be preserved for those who wanted to remember the game for what it once was, and that's ok. Then there are those people (like me) who'd like to see some advanced features in Platform Racing 2. Both arguments are perfectly fine to me.

NOSTALGIA: Let me be blunt with you guys here: This game really sucks, nowadays. I know that seems like a cliche-thing to say, and I realize that you all are trying to keep these tournaments and level-of-the-week threads going, but quite frankly it's not enough and it's getting stale. I've heard numerous people complain about the BODY PARTS, the LEVEL MODES, the ITEMS, and the HATS. Honestly, I think nostalgia died 14 years ago when 2010 came. PR2 was at its peak during 2008-2009 when the roster was stacked, and that's when I think it was truly special because rank 50 was rare, and you had two special hats that were rare as well. If people wanted to preserve nostalgia, then we wouldn't have added so many rank tokens, body parts, items, level modes, and hats. If I'm wrong here, please point it out because everybody is going to have a difference in opinion about these things. So, when do you think nostalgia died?

WORST HAT EVER IMO: The Artifact hat. Seriously, though. I don't know why people made such a big deal over this worthless thing. All you're doing is racing with reversed controls (in hyper speed) for 30 secs and then you quit. Give me a break. The only thing it was ever good for was granting you 11,111 xp points when you found it. Other than that, who gives a damn?! I've even teased it, HERE.

THE FUTURE: If you're sick and tired of hearing about "nostalgia this", or "nostalgia that", then keep reading because things are about to take a hard left. First off, I think the future of Pr2 should have advanced features, now. Why? - Because it keeps the game interesting and it drifts away from being stale. Nostalgia is cool for the older players like myself, but you have to consider the future of this game.

So when you want to draw in new, active users... you need to market this game with advanced features. Be more innovate and insightful with new ideas. People are tired of seeing the same layouts, backgrounds, play styles, animations, sound effects, and music. Just ask @Master Raiden (see his comment down at the bottom of THIS thread). TBH with you guys, the latest ideas that I've seen lately, are pretty pathetic. I really don't think some of you guys are taking advantage of your full, artistic and creative abilities, here. Or maybe you guys could care less, huh?

Anyways, this goes much more deeper than that. Advertise, advertise, advertise! Stream! Stream! Stream! Yes, I know... it's going to be very complicated trying to advertise this game when you have much more, highly improved & advanced games on stream, nowadays. Which is why I don't even think Pr2 can compete with stream because it's a 2D dimensional-based game that's lull in development. Lastly, it's also why it should be advertised on sites that don't carry a lot of competition.

Some of you guys have younger siblings and children. Advertise this game to them and see what they think. Reminisce on all the great times you've had racing and chatting with your old buddies back in grade school, and then share those memories (that you were fond of) with them. Basically, you're passing the torch to the younger generations because originally, this game was a millennial-based game which is now played by Gen-Z's.

I can't even tell you guys how many times I've pitched a bunch of great ideas that will probably never get implemented into the game. A lot of these may be too advanced for Pr2, but it could potentially increase the roster. You can see them all in the spoiler, below. Am I wasting my time pitching these ideas, people... or am I incentivizing everyone by saying that Pr2 can be elevated to a higher level by tapping into the right side of your brain's hemisphere, by thinking outside of the box? I'm asking this because I feel like it's a waste of my time knowing none of this stuff will probably never go anywhere.

Spoiler

AFTERMATH HAT

NEW GAME MODE! 🔥

PR2 FOR ADULTS ONLY - NO KIDS STUFF!

It's TIME! – Project 1B

PROJECT 1A

SOUND DESIGN IDEAS

SOLUTIONS: Considering that some of you guys think that the game has had "too many updates", and some of you think that the game needs to "continue having updates", why don't I create a solution that'll solve everybody's problems, shall we. First off, I highly recommend creating two versions of Platform racing 2: the first version maintains all the nostalgia goodies that you guys were all fond of back in the day. This is where you get to decide how high the bar will be set that considers only just a few updates (past 2009) that are absolutely necessary. In this version of Pr2, I'd at least keep the rank tokens because it'd be weird to login to Pr2 with less than what you've previously achieved. Also, this version of Pr2 doesn't have "spam-added" updates. Just a few simple, campaigns and updates that doesn't go overboard. That way, you can explain to your children and younger siblings how Pr2 was, back in the day.

Now for the second version, this is more so of an advanced version because you can update the game (with advanced features) and pitch new ideas as much as you want to. For example, you can consider my ideas in the spoiler, above. But, there still needs to be a cap that prevents unnecessary updates and ideas. Someone needs to be the judge of which updates and ideas are actually good, and which updates and ideas would either break the game and render it as unplayable, or consider it as a piece of trash. However you want to slice it, is ultimately up to you.

SYNDICATE: Now obviously, we can't just push all this hard work on poor @bls1999 because the man has a life. There's a reason why things like the REPLAY SYSTEM hasn't been implemented into the game, yet. Ben really needs an assistance coder with years of experience, to be a right-hand man and implement this stuff into the game. I'm sure he'd like to consider adding a lot of this stuff into pr2, but he's put it off because he knows there's going to be a great deal of trial and error that comes along with it.

So, this is how things are going to be proposed for Pr2, including JV2:

Creative Pr2 Geniuses: @Different @Addy @oxy @Northadox @Delphinoid_

Creative Artists: @~JBG~ @John m. @GI_John @Levente77 @Overbeing @Magyar

Music Ideas: @Adulock77 @Justinbob100

Beta Testers (hats, items, levels, etc): @Master Raiden @Camer the Dragon @ThePizzaEater1000 @Delphinoid_

Bugs & Suggestions: @Master Raiden @Camer the Dragon

Creative sound effects: @Different @Adulock77

Coding and development: @bls1999

Critiques: @AlphaZ @Delphinoid_ @Northadox @Camer the Dragon @Master Raiden

New JV MODS: @Uptight 534 @TRUC @Mia

Administrators/Managers: @Dangevin @Eternal

Let me explain all the logic and reasoning behind all these decisions.

Creative Pr2 Geniuses: These people are responsible for coming up with innovate ideas that go outside of the Pr2 norm. These people specialize in discovering new features that really stretch the imagination, and they possess a highly creative mindset that'll take pr2 to the next level.

Creative Artists: these people possess advanced skill levels in their artistic abilities. They understand color, texture, space, shade, and much more! They have years of experience, and they're highly gifted in drawing and painting, graphically. You can rest assure that their work will always end up polished and pristine.

Creative Music ideas: these people are virtuosos. They are fully aware of what is appropriate for the required thing at hand. They're musical geniuses who not only have an abundance of musical ideas, they also create it themselves in DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations). They understand chords, notes, melodies, hooks, scales, storytelling, and bridges. They know how to tell a story, and they know exactly what Pr2 needs.

Beta Testers: These people are responsible for discovering any bugs or issues before a general release. Should anything come up, and they'll be responsible for reporting it to management before it gets implemented into the game, permanently.

Bugs and Suggestions: These people are very good at spotting problems with bugs in the game. You can always count on them to report any issues in Pr2.

Creative sound effects: these people understand what sound effects are appropriate for things like video games, movies, and television shows. For instance, whenever a character shoots someone with a bullet, you can expect to hear the sound of a bullet being fired & someone screaming to death. They also understand the audio engineering behind the process.

Coding and Development: these people understand things like programming language, and implementing a set of instructions that dictates how the game behaves, once the machine receives those instructions. This is where the magic happens because all our ideas can come to life, here.

Critics: These people speak articulately, and are very knowledgable about the game. They'll view your ideas, then elaborate on why it's a good idea or a bad idea.

New JV MODS: We really don't have any mods at the moment, and these people are always active. So, why not nominate these guys 🤷‍♂️

Administrators/Managers: When Ben is unavailable, these guys have the responsibility of overseeing all the creative ideas and considering critiques for the game. Someone comes up with an idea, we critique it and vote on whether it's a good idea or not, then management will have the final say-so and say "ok, this looks good!" If not, then we'll discuss on ways to either improve it, or we'll dismiss the idea altogether. At this point, should Ben be unavailable, we'll have our right-hand man code this stuff for us. Then the beta testers will test it out to see if there are any bugs or issues. Finally, management will then report it back to Ben to seek his approval. That way, all the stress is uplifted from Ben's hands.

FINAL THOUGHTS: Some of you will be required to wear more than one hat in this syndicate because of your level of expertise in certain areas. If I notice that someone is really knowledgable in a certain area, then I'll automatically add your name to the list. If you do not want to be on the list, or you'd rather have your name moved elsewhere, then please let me know. Otherwise, I'm going to assume that you're cool with it. If there's anyone whom you think should be added to the list, then please let me know that as well.

Now, if I get too many votes on this idea being a bad idea, then I'm just going to pull the plug and stop pitching ideas. I have an abundance of undiscovered ideas that you guys are unaware of. It goes beyond my original, creative thinking level. It'll seem unfathomable at first, but you'll understand it eventually.

I've given up on the Aftermath hat because my drawing skills are mediocre, I'm not even kidding. This is why I've created a syndicate because I need people to help me get these ideas implemented into the game. My role is to pitch creative ideas, not become a coder, an artist, or a programmer... and I sure as hell don't know anything about reading algorithms. None of those things are in my skillset.

So, what's it gonna be, people?! Is 2024 the ultimate beginning of change for Pr2, or should we dismiss these ideas and pull the plug on them?

[TRUC]

Even if we set the whole nostalgia VS progress debate aside, since it's not really the point here, there are a lot of limitations that we have to deal with when it comes to such a major overhaul in the future. I'm not only talking about the feasibility of some ideas (as far as I know, there are certain clients out there with extra functionalities) or Ben's ability to release them publicly at some point, but there's also the fact that the marketing outreach, for a lack of better words, is almost non existent outside the past community keeping it alive and/or players coming back. The fact that the game itself is still under Jiggmin's legacy means it's stuck in this current state of only being available on here via dowload.

Don't get me wrong, it would be cool and nice, plus I'm failry certain most people can root for that in spite of their nostalgia, but for stuff like this to happen with enough impact, there needs to be bigger motives coming from elsewhere than just our best intentions (and I mean with everyone, staff contributions and side projects included). The game can be taken further down its development, sure, but WHY EVEN BOTHER when all those reasons come back anyway, hmmmm... it's not pointless, it's a noble objective, but there's gotta be an external factor.

[Overbeing]

I am here because I want to be. I am here because it is fun. By being here and participating, we are all making this a place worth being. I too wish that the community was larger and more stable. It does surprise me that there is little to no eyes on the game. Very little content is made, because we are the only audience, there is very little demand. I feel like it would take getting on the GDQ stage or having a content creator with an audience play pr2 to revitalize the game in a meaningful way. But it is perfectly fine if that doesn't ever happen.
I feel very lucky that pr2 still exist and extraordinarily lucky that it has recieved updates that are really well done.
If the game doesn't get a boost in popularity, the best way to keep it alive is to do what we have been doing. Insentivising players to race and make new levels.
The live steams are always a blast when they happen. The contests are well done. New levels are still being made. People are still racing and exploring. One way to help keep a small community alive is to have times where there are seasonal events. That way all the players know it is happening and return to the game all at the same time, instead of being inactive or active all at different times.
There is clearly more that can be done to keep the game alive, but we are lucky to have such an amazing team who already do so much and have kept it alive. I think a round of applause is in order!

[Uptight 534]

I appreciate you nominating me for a moderator, but I am probably the least qualified person here (with the sole exception for ending the streak on "Count to 500 before a Mod Posts"). I have not played PR2 in about a year or two, and it was only for a few minutes for a stage in Big Brother ('member?) Before that, probably about five years ago. Hell, maybe even back to Acid Forums (legends never die) or the original JV site.

I am also extremely apathetic, so that will be a hard no.

100% appreciate everyone still keeping everything alive.

[Northadox]

kneel beneath me I am a pr2 genius

[Different]

Even if we set the whole nostalgia VS progress debate aside, since it's not really the point here, there are a lot of limitations that we have to deal with when it comes to such a major overhaul in the future. I'm not only talking about the feasibility of some ideas (as far as I know, there are certain clients out there with extra functionalities) or Ben's ability to release them publicly at some point, but there's also the fact that the marketing outreach, for a lack of better words, is almost non existent outside the past community keeping it alive and/or players coming back. The fact that the game itself is still under Jiggmin's legacy means it's stuck in this current state of only being available on here via dowload.

Yeah, I had a feeling that there would be some limitations because this is a massive project to deal with, plus Pr2 has a bunch of imperfections and things that are probably outdated compared to today's market. I think Jiggmin moved on, 10 years ago after the whole, Motley Monday thing.

Don't get me wrong, it would be cool and nice, plus I'm failry certain most people can root for that in spite of their nostalgia, but for stuff like this to happen with enough impact, there needs to be bigger motives coming from elsewhere than just our best intentions (and I mean with everyone, staff contributions and side projects included). The game can be taken further down its development, sure, but WHY EVEN BOTHER when all those reasons come back anyway, hmmmm... it's not pointless, it's a noble objective, but there's gotta be an external factor.

100% agreed. Well, if everyone jumped on board then perhaps we can go beyond what seems to be nearly impossible, atm. Tbh, it's quite time intensive, and if it were to be done, then I would expect this to take months to do because I know people have lives and such. It is risky business for sure because there are a lot of uncertainties that comes with this project. With side projects and outside sources, we could for sure accomplish these things. Unfortunately at some point, Jiggmin may have to get involved and approve some of these things.

I am here because I want to be. I am here because it is fun. By being here and participating, we are all making this a place worth being. I too wish that the community was larger and more stable. It does surprise me that there is little to no eyes on the game. Very little content is made, because we are the only audience, there is very little demand. I feel like it would take getting on the GDQ stage or having a content creator with an audience play pr2 to revitalize the game in a meaningful way. But it is perfectly fine if that doesn't ever happen.
I feel very lucky that pr2 still exist and extraordinarily lucky that it has recieved updates that are really well done.
If the game doesn't get a boost in popularity, the best way to keep it alive is to do what we have been doing. Insentivising players to race and make new levels.
The live steams are always a blast when they happen. The contests are well done. New levels are still being made. People are still racing and exploring. One way to help keep a small community alive is to have times where there are seasonal events. That way all the players know it is happening and return to the game all at the same time, instead of being inactive or active all at different times.
There is clearly more that can be done to keep the game alive, but we are lucky to have such an amazing team who already do so much and have kept it alive. I think a round of applause is in order!

We're all glad to have you here, man! It sounds like you're still valuing nostalgia, and that's ok. But, unfortunately it'll only cater to the minority of players who treasured Pr2 for what it once was, back in the day. It would be really nice if we had someone like Mr.Beast or PewDiePie play Platform Racing 2 and leave their critiques on the game. Then that would draw in a massive crowd. But, I think the only way those people would ever stick around is if there were advanced features. The only thing that I can see would even stick out as a popular version of Pr2, would be the 'adult version' of the game that I was pitching, months ago.

I appreciate you nominating me for a moderator, but I am probably the least qualified person here (with the sole exception for ending the streak on "Count to 500 before a Mod Posts"). I have not played PR2 in about a year or two, and it was only for a few minutes for a stage in Big Brother ('member?) Before that, probably about five years ago. Hell, maybe even back to Acid Forums (legends never die) or the original JV site.

I am also extremely apathetic, so that will be a hard no.

100% appreciate everyone still keeping everything alive.

No worries! I'll remove your name from the list, eventually. But, just to let you know, the option is still currently available for you, should you ever change your mind. We're always looking for an active player to manage things, and you're probably one of the most, active players here. Plus, you seem like you'd be a well-disciplined person who follows the rules.

[Delphinoid_]

As TRUC mentioned, in order to get more players, the game needs some amount of marketing, which is currently non-existent. There are definitely influential YouTubers and Twitch streamers who at least remember the game (Simpleflips has occasionally mentioned PR2 and expressed interest in playing it during streams, for instance), which could make outreach marketing a viable strategy, but anyone revisiting the game would do so only briefly for nostalgia's sake. You have to understand that everyone got their fill of this game 10 years ago; it was dying even when Jiggmin was doing Motley Monday. This kind of leads me into the next point.

PR2 actually doesn't really have much to offer in the long term. The game lacks content, is extremely repetitive and is not even really that interesting by modern standards. It's a product of a different era, where it could capitalize on being one of the very few accessible multiplayer games (especially that wasn't an MMORPG). PR3 was a significant improvement, but well... we all know what happened to PR3.

I think in order for Platform Racing to become popular again, the most efficient approach would be to create a new game from scratch, put it on Steam and potentially even try to get some influencers who have some familiarity with the series interested. Since Mario Maker 2 is beginning to become less relevant, this is probably a great time for something like this. Here is a list of changes / features that I would suggest for such a game.

1. Huge focus on UGC. I think PR3's level creation options were the best thing to ever be introduced to the series, and even by today's standards they're incredibly unique and innovative. They give players so much freedom and add a lot of variety to the game. At least reintroducing custom blocks would be a must, but maybe you could even take it further somehow. Modern PR3's Lua support is very cool for instance, and games like ROBLOX show us that stuff like this can help a game succeed and remain relevant. Taking this to its logical extreme could be an avenue worth exploring (what if you could add custom entities as well as blocks?).

2. Levels should save world records and possibly first clears as well. Games like Mario Maker and Trackmania show us that people care a lot about competing for the fastest times on random user-made levels, so this should be embraced. The idea of tracking "first clears" is taken from Mario Maker; as well as being a nice thing for players to collect (a first clear on a particular level is something that will always belong to you), they also allow you to see which levels have been cleared; this led to an initiative in the community to collaboratively clear every level in the original game, which I think demonstrates the power of this seemingly random feature.

3. It would be nice to have some kind of "competitive" mode for people who care about that kind of thing. Just adding a ranking system to a game can keep people playing for a long time, since it turns gradual improvement into something measurable that they can share with other players.

4. More interesting forms of movement. PR has a tendency to turn into a "hold right simulator". That being said, I think it would be difficult to find non-intrusive ways of augmenting the movement. At the very least I would make two suggestions: first, I think PR1-style bonking (à la the Jigg hat) should be brought back, just without stunning the player being bonked (bouncing off people is fun and adds a new level of interactivity and strategy between players). Second, I think there needs to be a replacement for super jumping (especially if bonking is brought back); super jumping temporarily breaks the flow of the race and just inherently isn't really very fun to have to do in a series modelled after the phrase "Go fast. Win." The only thing is that functionally super jumping gives players with low jump stats a way to compete, so it would be challenging to find a good replacement that doesn't undermine the jump stat.

5. Untie stat points from ranking up. This may be a controversial change, but I think giving players a flat boost to stats for no other reason than that they've played for longer is stupid.

6. Collectibles / customization. Lots of collectible customization options is obviously a must and totally in the spirit of the series. The way PR2 and PR3 have done this has always been practically perfect, especially with their hats, which function as extremely valuable and desirable rewards. In line with the previous point, a remark I would make here is that it would be nice if no hat were ever a direct upgrade to not wearing any hat, unless the advantage it provides does not affect racing (EXP hat) or it's relatively easy to get (a reward you can quickly get from a singleplayer campaign or something). Hats done properly give players fun new (but not necessarily better) options and allow them to create new strategies that fit their playstyle. Hats done poorly are cheap and undermine player skill. An example of this kind of thing done pretty well is probably TF2's unlockable weapons. In practice though it might be difficult to balance hats with this in mind though, and honestly it's probably not so important as long as players can get at least one hat that holds up against the others from a singleplayer campaign or something.

7. Maintain (but maybe update?) Jiggmin's incredibly charming creative style. I think everyone loves Jiggmin's style, and the design of the original platform racing character is just brilliant: it's super cute and iconic, and I think it makes a really good first impression.

I think a project like this would be incredibly ambitious, but it's certainly doable. I think what's left of the JV community could even put together something like this given enough interest, although I think it would be pointless unless it were spearheaded by Jiggmin.

[Different]

As TRUC mentioned, in order to get more players, the game needs some amount of marketing, which is currently non-existent. There are definitely influential YouTubers and Twitch streamers who at least remember the game (Simpleflips has occasionally mentioned PR2 and expressed interest in playing it during streams, for instance), which could make outreach marketing a viable strategy, but anyone revisiting the game would do so only briefly for nostalgia's sake. You have to understand that everyone got their fill of this game 10 years ago; it was dying even when Jiggmin was doing Motley Monday. This kind of leads me into the next point.

Who is Simpleflips? I've never heard of him, before 🤔 But yes, I agree that this game needs the right amount of marketing to elevate Pr2 to the next level. Even if we had influential YouTubers aid in marketing this game, it would be sort of challenging to get people to remain playing because it's a 2D platform that's pretty stagnant in terms of the roster, and its abilities.

PR2 actually doesn't really have much to offer in the long term. The game lacks content, is extremely repetitive and is not even really that interesting by modern standards. It's a product of a different era, where it could capitalize on being one of the very few accessible multiplayer games (especially that wasn't an MMORPG). PR3 was a significant improvement, but well... we all know what happened to PR3.

You've just proved my point that I made in my thread. A small, vocal minority of people would rather preserve the game for its nostalgia and keep reporting bug issues, rather than being concerned with more "modern standards".

I think in order for Platform Racing to become popular again, the most efficient approach would be to create a new game from scratch, put it on Steam and potentially even try to get some influencers who have some familiarity with the series interested. Since Mario Maker 2 is beginning to become less relevant, this is probably a great time for something like this. Here is a list of changes / features that I would suggest for such a game.

1. Huge focus on UGC. I think PR3's level creation options were the best thing to ever be introduced to the series, and even by today's standards they're incredibly unique and innovative. They give players so much freedom and add a lot of variety to the game. At least reintroducing custom blocks would be a must, but maybe you could even take it further somehow. Modern PR3's Lua support is very cool for instance, and games like ROBLOX show us that stuff like this can help a game succeed and remain relevant. Taking this to its logical extreme could be an avenue worth exploring (what if you could add custom entities as well as blocks?).

2. Levels should save world records and possibly first clears as well. Games like Mario Maker and Trackmania show us that people care a lot about competing for the fastest times on random user-made levels, so this should be embraced. The idea of tracking "first clears" is taken from Mario Maker; as well as being a nice thing for players to collect (a first clear on a particular level is something that will always belong to you), they also allow you to see which levels have been cleared; this led to an initiative in the community to collaboratively clear every level in the original game, which I think demonstrates the power of this seemingly random feature.

3. It would be nice to have some kind of "competitive" mode for people who care about that kind of thing. Just adding a ranking system to a game can keep people playing for a long time, since it turns gradual improvement into something measurable that they can share with other players.

4. More interesting forms of movement. PR has a tendency to turn into a "hold right simulator". That being said, I think it would be difficult to find non-intrusive ways of augmenting the movement. At the very least I would make two suggestions: first, I think PR1-style bonking (à la the Jigg hat) should be brought back, just without stunning the player being bonked (bouncing off people is fun and adds a new level of interactivity and strategy between players). Second, I think there needs to be a replacement for super jumping (especially if bonking is brought back); super jumping temporarily breaks the flow of the race and just inherently isn't really very fun to have to do in a series modelled after the phrase "Go fast. Win." The only thing is that functionally super jumping gives players with low jump stats a way to compete, so it would be challenging to find a good replacement that doesn't undermine the jump stat.

5. Untie stat points from ranking up. This may be a controversial change, but I think giving players a flat boost to stats for no other reason than that they've played for longer is stupid.

6. Collectibles / customization. Lots of collectible customization options is obviously a must and totally in the spirit of the series. The way PR2 and PR3 have done this has always been practically perfect, especially with their hats, which function as extremely valuable and desirable rewards. In line with the previous point, a remark I would make here is that it would be nice if no hat were ever a direct upgrade to not wearing any hat, unless the advantage it provides does not affect racing (EXP hat) or it's relatively easy to get (a reward you can quickly get from a singleplayer campaign or something). Hats done properly give players fun new (but not necessarily better) options and allow them to create new strategies that fit their playstyle. Hats done poorly are cheap and undermine player skill. An example of this kind of thing done pretty well is probably TF2's unlockable weapons. In practice though it might be difficult to balance hats with this in mind though, and honestly it's probably not so important as long as players can get at least one hat that holds up against the others from a singleplayer campaign or something.

7. Maintain (but maybe update?) Jiggmin's incredibly charming creative style. I think everyone loves Jiggmin's style, and the design of the original platform racing character is just brilliant: it's super cute and iconic, and I think it makes a really good first impression.

I think a project like this would be incredibly ambitious, but it's certainly doable. I think what's left of the JV community could even put together something like this given enough interest, although I think it would be pointless unless it were spearheaded by Jiggmin.

This sounds really interesting. I like the idea of creating a new game from scratch with enhanced ideas and features. Good luck getting it on Steam because we'd have to seek Jiggmin's approval. He still owns the IP, so unless somebody who actually cares about promoting this game on steam, buys the IP from him, we're basically at the mercy of Jiggmin because he refuses to sell it.

What do you think of AI BOTS being added into the game because you mentioned things like having a "competitive mode", and "levels saving world records"? Maybe the AI BOTS can display record times that you have to beat for rewards.

[Delphinoid_]

Who is Simpleflips? I've never heard of him, before 🤔 But yes, I agree that this game needs the right amount of marketing to elevate Pr2 to the next level. Even if we had influential YouTubers aid in marketing this game, it would be sort of challenging to get people to remain playing because it's a 2D platform that's pretty stagnant in terms of the roster, and its abilities.

He's a relatively popular streamer / speedrunner. He's most well-known for his Super Mario 64 and Mario Maker stuff but he dabbles in a variety of games. Bringing in the Mario Maker audience could be a strategy for a new PR game.

You've just proved my point that I made in my thread. A small, vocal minority of people would rather preserve the game for its nostalgia and keep reporting bug issues, rather than being concerned with more "modern standards".

I don't know if what I said really addresses that concern, but I do think game preservation is pretty important. If PR2 is updated significantly, I at least think the original version should be preserved as a separate version as you suggested (I believe this is what happened with Old School Runescape). It's also probably true that most people from outside the community will only immediately be interested in playing the game again for a brief bit of nostalgia, but this alone doesn't support or oppose significant updates to the game.

The biggest issue I have with updating PR2 is that it's extremely cost-inefficient and most likely a waste of time. At this point making a new game would be a lot easier than trying to update PR2, and it also wouldn't suffer from the various issues that come with PR2 (which mostly stem from it being a completely dead, almost 20-year-old flash game). Believe it or not, we actually have a case study to consult on this: TDP4, which was a very popular multiplayer flash game way back, actually released on Steam not too long ago. The Steam release didn't attract any new players, and any updates it may have gotten have pretty much been a complete waste of time. If an active Platform Racing game is what people want, I think a new game is realistically the most achievable solution.

This sounds really interesting. I like the idea of creating a new game from scratch with enhanced ideas and features. Good luck getting it on Steam because we'd have to seek Jiggmin's approval. He still owns the IP, so unless somebody who actually cares about promoting this game on steam, buys the IP from him, we're basically at the mercy of Jiggmin because he refuses to sell it.

What do you think of AI BOTS being added into the game because you mentioned things like having a "competitive mode", and "levels saving world records"? Maybe the AI BOTS can display record times that you have to beat for rewards.

Again I think it would be pointless without Jiggmin being involved in some way anyway. I can theorycraft all day, but at the end of it all I think it's kind of useless. I strongly believe that Jiggmin's creative vision (and not just for the PR series but for games in general) is irreplaceable. It wouldn't be Platform Racing without him.

As for bots, I think there was a thread discussing the technicalities of this a while ago. I think it would be challenging to the point of being totally infeasible given the diversity of user-created levels, unless you allowed level creators to set up a sophisticated checkpoint system. Lua plus custom entities would allow ambitious players to add these kinds of things to their levels if they wanted though. As far as displaying record times go, I think a ghost / replay system would probably be a good idea.

Bots aren't super necessary for competitive races either, since it's not too bad if players leave mid-race. I think Mario Maker does this kind of thing well.

[EpicMidget]

I plan to read through this later but I just wanted to quickly say that I love your contributions to the forum. They're well formatted and spark conversation, and you're clearly passionate about the game. heck yea

[Different]

The biggest issue I have with updating PR2 is that it's extremely cost-inefficient and most likely a waste of time. At this point making a new game would be a lot easier than trying to update PR2, and it also wouldn't suffer from the various issues that come with PR2 (which mostly stem from it being a completely dead, almost 20-year-old flash game). Believe it or not, we actually have a case study to consult on this: TDP4, which was a very popular multiplayer flash game way back, actually released on Steam not too long ago. The Steam release didn't attract any new players, and any updates it may have gotten have pretty much been a complete waste of time. If an active Platform Racing game is what people want, I think a new game is realistically the most achievable solution.

The only problem with creating a new game from scratch is finding a guy that knows how to do that stuff in the first place. Plus you know they're going to want to get paid for their work, that's another problem as well. I just wish that there were someone in this community who has the passion and desire to see Pr2 elevate to the next level, that knows how to create games from scratch.

I just looked up TDP4. Looks pretty interesting, I'm surprised the Steam release didn't attract any new players, as you said before. I wonder if people just grew tired of 2D games in general. Fun Fact: TDP4 reminds me of what I've been pitching for PR2 PR2 FOR ADULTS ONLY. But, it'd be a monumental waste of time in the original version. So yes, I'd like to see a new version of Pr2.

Again I think it would be pointless without Jiggmin being involved in some way anyway. I can theorycraft all day, but at the end of it all I think it's kind of useless. I strongly believe that Jiggmin's creative vision (and not just for the PR series but for games in general) is irreplaceable. It wouldn't be Platform Racing without him.

Unfortunately, he's rarely involved in Platform Racing games, anymore. He moved on to Bubble Racing in the short, latter of years. He could just collect royalties from the new IP owner and sign a contract that allows him to drop in and change some minuscule features. He wouldn't own the majority of the game, but he'd at least get 10% of it.

As for bots, I think there was a thread discussing the technicalities of this a while ago. I think it would be challenging to the point of being totally infeasible given the diversity of user-created levels, unless you allowed level creators to set up a sophisticated checkpoint system. Lua plus custom entities would allow ambitious players to add these kinds of things to their levels if they wanted though. As far as displaying record times go, I think a ghost / replay system would probably be a good idea.

Bots aren't super necessary for competitive races either, since it's not too bad if players leave mid-race. I think Mario Maker does this kind of thing well.

There is a thread discussing all the technicalities, but the reason I'm asking you is because you deleted all your messages on that thread for some reason. Anyways, I'm not sure how a checkpoint system would respond to AI BOTS, I've never thought of that before 🤔 I have no doubt that this would not only be complicated to do, but also very time intensive. But, if it were to ever be accomplished, it would definitely have to be in the new version of the game.

The main reason I wanted the AI BOTS around is because all that most people do nowadays is start a career, no-lifing and macroing their accounts to a substantial rank. AI BOTS would just keep people entertained and prevent them from questioning whether they've made a mistake investing their time into PR2 or not. There can't always be a real human around, so that's where they'd fill in that gap, especially for competitive races.

Ultimately, I'm hearing from you that there shouldn't be anymore updates in the current Pr2, which is fine. So, I'll add you under the list of people who voted against pitching new ideas in the original version. I've always felt like I was squandering my time pitching new ideas for the current version, anyways. All my ideas in the spoiler are too advanced for it, anyways.

So if someone were to create a new game from scratch, would you be interested in wearing multiple hats for a critic, creative, and beta tester? We need smart people like you in the syndicate to ensure that we elevate PR2 to the next level.

[~JBG~]

It's probably going to be difficult to find someone willing to program a whole new game from scratch without being compensated for it, that being said here are the platform racing clones that I recall from the top of my head.

Grid Based Obstacle Race
Northadox Platform Racing clone
PR4 by sebastianpolak120
Platform Racing 2 in c++ 
Head Bumper Editcraft

[Delphinoid_]

So if someone were to create a new game from scratch, would you be interested in wearing multiple hats for a critic, creative, and beta tester? We need smart people like you in the syndicate to ensure that we elevate PR2 to the next level.

I'm not really sure... I guess I do have pretty broad interests when it comes to game development (I'm working on a game engine from scratch, and even though I'm not a professional artist by any means my main hobby is 2D / 3D art and animation, although I really love all forms of art and try to dabble in as many as possible). I guess the problem though is that I don't have a lot of energy these days... I'm starting my PhD this year and would also like to dedicate some time to finishing the engine and working on some of my own game ideas / other artistic projects that I've been slowly cooking over the years. Ideally I'd like to do what I can to help though, if only to encourage people to take some initiative towards something they care about.

What I really love about video games is that they're arguably the most comprehensive form of creative expression - game development spans various areas of science (like mathematics, physics, computer science, etc.) and pretty much every form of art (visual, literary and performing). I think for people with broad interests there's very little that's more appealing, and I would love to be able to share my own broad appreciation of art and science with others. I think people especially overestimate the technical component of game development; basic programming, for instance, is way easier than most people imagine, and if you really wanted to you could probably follow a tutorial and learn to make a simple game with a pre-existing game engine like Godot or something in a day or so.

Anyway... if you really want to see this vision realized, it may be that you might need to be the one to take initiative and cultivate the necessary skills to see it through. But I think this might be easier and more fun than you expect.

It's probably going to be difficult to find someone willing to program a whole new game from scratch without being compensated for it, that being said here are the platform racing clones that I recall from the top of my head.

Grid Based Obstacle Race
Northadox Platform Racing clone
PR4 by sebastianpolak120
Platform Racing 2 in c++ 
Head Bumper Editcraft

I think what you might find is that people who have the right skill set for this kind of thing will be more interested in exploring their own original ideas rather than iterating on someone else's. Based on your list it seems like there are at least some exceptions to this though. Maybe contacting Northadox would be a good idea for Different; I have a HUGE amount of respect for Northadox as an artist, a programmer and a human being, and honestly I really admire anyone who strives to be in some sense a kind of "Renaissance man" (as cringey as it is to use that particular term here, lol).

[Northadox]

It's probably going to be difficult to find someone willing to program a whole new game from scratch without being compensated for it, that being said here are the platform racing clones that I recall from the top of my head.

Grid Based Obstacle Race
Northadox Platform Racing clone
PR4 by sebastianpolak120
Platform Racing 2 in c++ 
Head Bumper Editcraft

I don't think I'm gonna be coming back to my PR2 clone anytime soon unfortunately. was a fun idea but it is a big ask

as for how to revive a platform racing-like game, idk, I don't think it's likely. i don't think a multiplayer platforming game is interesting to a lot of people, the market doesn't yearn for it. games like mario maker are as big as they are due to the brand appeal and even then discussion of that game sort of fizzled out (also mm2's multiplayer component sucked eggs).

i'm thinking about if multiplayer platformers really have much potential anyways. there's two parts of a competitive platforming game, the time attack aspect and the deathmatch.

if you're trying to get the best time on a level, other players playing at the same time as you will either make your run unoptimal (them hurting you with items) or unsatisfying (them clearing the way of some blocks/leading you in the right direction), meaning there's only so much fun to be have with playing with them (the novelty, which is raher short-lived). with a time attack game you're mostly competing against yourself, getting the fastest time, routing things for yourself, or completing the hardest levels, that's where the strength of that lies. if you're good at platforming the players will be a non-factor anyways because you'll know how to get to the end the fastest, leaving them in the dust. speedrunning does exist but they aren't playing with you at the same time.

there's also the matter of deathmatch, which some people do enjoy, but if people are yearning for the hardcore PvP experience they probably want more complex games (like 3D first person shooters) that challenge their aim, positioning and strategy much more than a more simple 2D game does. there's only so much skill that can be expressed in a 2D platformer, especially one as simple as PR2.

multiplayer games, if you're hosting centralized servers, are also going to be much more costly than just a single player game which you can just release as is and won't require any upkeep/money funneled into it all the time to keep the servers afloat and secure. 

so ultimately i don't think multiplayer platformers work too well. i think pr2 lucked out. as delphinoid explained pr2 was just kinda in the right place at the right time in terms of being an accessible MMO game kids could play on kongregate at the time, and much of its playerbase only sticks around because of intense nostalgia (or because they're psychotic enough to enjoy levels that softlock you).

would a platform racing revival really be worth it? it's not 2008 anymore unfortunately. if it did exist you might get some fleeting sense of nostalgia but I don't think it would have much legs to stand on, people who want platformers with custom levels would probably just go to the mario hacking scene or mario maker (as mario has that colossal brand recognition carrying it. hence more players/interest), and as I explained the multiplayer aspect is mildly novel at best and heavily resource-intensive at worst.

i think if you're making a platformer focusing on a high effort single player experience is going to be the best avenue. focusing on good movement, a good style, etc. there's a lot of modern platformers, 2d and 3d that have seen a lot of success (pizza tower, hat in time, pseudoregalia, etc.) and none of them have a multiplayer component, and I think there's a reason why that is

[Different]

I'm not really sure... I guess I do have pretty broad interests when it comes to game development (I'm working on a game engine from scratch, and even though I'm not a professional artist by any means my main hobby is 2D / 3D art and animation, although I really love all forms of art and try to dabble in as many as possible). I guess the problem though is that I don't have a lot of energy these days... I'm starting my PhD this year and would also like to dedicate some time to finishing the engine and working on some of my own game ideas / other artistic projects that I've been slowly cooking over the years. Ideally I'd like to do what I can to help though, if only to encourage people to take some initiative towards something they care about.

Hell yeah, dude. You're really smart when it comes to stuff like this. You've already proven to me that you've got the capabilities to draw 2D/3D art animation, and you've already worked on starting a game engine from scratch. What are you getting your PhD in?

Anyway... if you really want to see this vision realized, it may be that you might need to be the one to take initiative and cultivate the necessary skills to see it through. But I think this might be easier and more fun than you expect.

No, sir. I know absolutely nothing about game engines, C++ programming, writing codes, creating games from scratch, or even the physics behind it. I'm more of a creative. If this were audio engineering, then I could help because I've gotten my Bachelor's degree in Audio Production over a year ago. So, I'm more of a creative, and consider myself a sound designer.

[Different]

I don't think I'm gonna be coming back to my PR2 clone anytime soon unfortunately. was a fun idea but it is a big ask

as for how to revive a platform racing-like game, idk, I don't think it's likely. i don't think a multiplayer platforming game is interesting to a lot of people, the market doesn't yearn for it. games like mario maker are as big as they are due to the brand appeal and even then discussion of that game sort of fizzled out (also mm2's multiplayer component sucked eggs).

I gotta say, man... I'm very disappointed in you, right now. You started working on this marvelous, PR2 clone project over 2 years ago, but you never returned to it because in your words, you said "I procrastinate". What kind of message are you sending to the JV community, huh? You possess all these powerful skills in creating a game, and just when you get deep into it, you just quit all of a sudden.

When I first saw your project, I was at an awe moment. But now that I know the truth, I guess that awe moment died pretty quickly. You were the one guy who I thought should have gotten the IP from Jiggmin because you could have reshaped PR2 into something really special. I was really looking forward to the finishing touches of your project. You've got all these gifts and you just gave up on them, here.

Listen, don't be like me, man, alright?! I did this same thing with the Aftermath hat that I was supposed to release last year, but I quit too because I can't draw, and I procrastinated.

[Delphinoid_]

Hell yeah, dude. You're really smart when it comes to stuff like this. You've already proven to me that you've got the capabilities to draw 2D/3D art animation, and you've already worked on starting a game engine from scratch. What are you getting your PhD in?

Pure maths, which is by definition "mathematics that is not motivated by real-world applications". My main research interests are broadly in group theory and (exotic) category theory, where the latter is jokingly referred to as "abstract nonsense". As you can tell there are practically 0 career prospects for this subject LOL, but I really love the creative aspect of it. My goal is academia, but the supply of pure mathematicians (which isn't so great in the first place) way outstrips the demand, since this "demand" is practically nonexistent even within academia. My plan is that if / when academia doesn't work out I can probably fall back on theoretical physics though (in particular I did some work in the area of theoretical quantum computing as an undergrad, and my boss said he'd be happy to take me on in the future if maths doesn't work out, which is super nice). If that doesn't work, the next best thing would be some job that maximizes the time I have to work on creative projects (for instance, in principle I honestly have no problem with working part-time at a convenience store forever if I can - the amount of free time I'd have to work on the variety of things I care about would be really nice, and money doesn't matter at all to me as long as I can survive off it).

No, sir. I know absolutely nothing about game engines, C++ programming, writing codes, creating games from scratch, or even the physics behind it. I'm more of a creative. If this were audio engineering, then I could help because I've gotten my Bachelor's degree in Audio Production over a year ago. So, I'm more of a creative, and consider myself a sound designer.

You can always learn though, and the learning curve is quite gentle for game development these days. Most game developers aren't even professional programmers, especially on the indie side, they're just people who are passionate about games and wanted to make something! Plus of course being a creative and a "techie" aren't mutually exclusive - even audio production probably demonstrates this, since it seems like it's a really cool mix of creative and technical work (I know nothing about it though).

[Northadox]

I gotta say, man... I'm very disappointed in you, right now. You started working on this marvelous, PR2 clone project over 2 years ago, but you never returned to it because in your words, you said "I procrastinate". What kind of message are you sending to the JV community, huh? You possess all these powerful skills in creating a game, and just when you get deep into it, you just quit all of a sudden.

When I first saw your project, I was at an awe moment. But now that I know the truth, I guess that awe moment died pretty quickly. You were the one guy who I thought should have gotten the IP from Jiggmin because you could have reshaped PR2 into something really special. I was really looking forward to the finishing touches of your project. You've got all these gifts and you just gave up on them, here.

Listen, don't be like me, man, alright?! I did this same thing with the Aftermath hat that I was supposed to release last year, but I quit too because I can't draw, and I procrastinated.

please don't use the phrase IP in discussion with me kthx

anyways it's not like I don't have any creative outlet besides that little clone game lol, i have plenty of other projects i work on my own time, I've made other games and i work on art commissions as a source of income. working on these grand, big dream programming projects when you don't have a good grasp on your tools and the concepts needed to fuel it is a probably not going to end well!

never said I NEVER was going to work on it again, just that it was on hold. i am sure i will make a platforming game one day and I will share it here. just wait your cute lil butt ok

[Different]

please don't use the phrase IP in discussion with me kthx

Oh please... that article is just plain, silly. There's always gonna be someone out there that doesn't agree with the traditional way of labelling things, so they make a big fuss about it by elaborating on why it doesn't make sense. Look, we were taught to use the phrase "IP" in music business class. I mean, what would you call it a patent or something?

anyways it's not like I don't have any creative outlet besides that little clone game lol, i have plenty of other projects i work on my own time, I've made other games and i work on art commissions as a source of income. working on these grand, big dream programming projects when you don't have a good grasp on your tools and the concepts needed to fuel it is a probably not going to end well!

I had no idea you were working on other projects and getting commissions for them. At first, I thought you were a game developer working at some kind of gaming company. Now, I'm curious to know what other projects you work on, including art commissions. But hey, the bigger the project, the more stressful it is to complete, especially when you need to meet deadlines for a company.

never said I NEVER was going to work on it again, just that it was on hold. i am sure i will make a platforming game one day and I will share it here. just wait your cute lil butt ok

Well, it has been over 2 years going on 3, so that's why I was curious and called you out on that. "Cute lil butt"? Pause ⏸

[Northadox]

I had no idea you were working on other projects and getting commissions for them. At first, I thought you were a game developer working at some kind of gaming company. Now, I'm curious to know what other projects you work on, including art commissions. But hey, the bigger the project, the more stressful it is to complete, especially when you need to meet deadlines for a company.

nop, just an unemployed, uneducated young man with ambitions
i'm sure you can find my art if you're dilligent and use your resources.
if you do find it please message me about it elsewhere don't want to derail the thread

Well, it has been over 2 years going on 3, so that's why I was curious and called you out on that. "Cute lil butt"? Pause ⏸